Add prime to the tank as it is being filled, or right before. I assume that you are using chlorinated water? If you were on a well you wouldn't need to treat it.

I happen to have a tap that cannot use an adaptor so I have to bucket but I set up a pump now with the bucket in the sink, pump in the bucket and hose to the tank. Run the tap, run the pump.... the water going through the pail could be treated before it gets to the tank I suppose. I do envy the people who can just use the attachments to do this.

Jeff

 

Yes, chlorinated tap water is not good for fish, and it will kill them..... Eventually. It's not as toxic as I think you think it is, though. With the water changer, there are many kinds of fish that will actually swim in the inflow of new water, straight from the tap. You have some leeway. My point is not to fret about it... just don't FORGET to add it Too, it depends on the size of your water change. For instance, if you do a 20% change and forget, the chlorine will probably dissipate without doing any harm. However, if you did an 80% change, the concentration of chlorine would be significantly higher as there's only 20% old water to dilute it. It will still dissipate, but that's a far more serious matter. Chloramine, however, does not dissipate in a timely manner.

 

just a heads up, instead of paying the like 60$ for 20 ft of rope and the adapter thing, you can get all of the same stuff at lowes/homedepot for maybe 20$ and that's with like 25ft of tube.

 

The water changing kits come in 25 foot lengths. I suppose $60 ($45 is more accurate) might be full retail value, but I don't know why anyone would pay that when they can buy it for significantly less online, with free shipping.

Amazon.com: Aqueon Aquarium Water Changer - 25 Feet: Pet Supplies

The faucet adapter costs about $10 to buy separately, and the vac tube costs around $10 as well. Not sure how much a 25 foot length of hose costs. Maybe you could save a couple dollars building it yourself, if the hose costs less than $10. For $29 dropped at your front door, I don't think you can beat it.

 

You'll find plenty of older aquarists who do 25% weekly water changes with no water conditioners at all. This goes back to when they started, when chloramine was not in regular use in municipal water supplies. The chlorine would gas off in several hours, the slight amount of disinfectant caused no harm to fish or bio filtration.

Over time chloramine was seen more regularly in these water supplies, these veteran aquarists were unaware of this, and continued on as usual. Their fish thrived, as usual. One problem with municipal water supplies & chloramine is that there is bacteria growing in the system itself that is capable of splitting the ammonia/chlorine bond in chloramine, using the ammonia as a food source. These bacteria grow in the bio filtration of these aquarists, they don't know this for the most part, and really don't need to.

The amount of disinfectant in your water supply is enough to provide a safe product for human consumption to your tap. If there was enough disinfectant to wipe out your bio filtration & kill off fish you wouldn't be able to drink it, but it would probably make a great oven cleaner. Due to the nature of my setup, overflows for water changes, I do 50% water changes with untreated tap water, adding Prime after the tank drains down. This is due more to issues with metals in my supply, knowing a bit about my supplier there are times I will do without it.

A good article on what water suppliers are up against in regards to nitrifying bacteria in municipal water supply systems can be found here; Ammonia- and Nitrite-Oxidizing Bacterial Communities in a Pilot-Scale Chloraminated Drinking Water Distribution System Needless to say, adding dechlorinator before adding tap water to a tank is the safest way to go, adding it during or after filling really won't make a difference in a tank with healthy nitrifying bacteria & fish. If you look at the ingredients in Maroxy you'll find that it's a stabilized chlorine product, and while medicating healthy fish is generally frowned upon for a variety of reasons, perhaps these old timers giving their fish a little shot of disinfectant is part of the reason the continually have fish that do so well.

 

You're always going to add conditioner after you drain, just before the refill. The real debate it about how much conditioner to use. Many members here report success with using just enough conditioner for the new water being added (as you would if you were doing it in buckets). For the tank method, I put the question to Seachem Tech Support on their web site and they recommended dosing for the entire tank volume.

 

I would say it's advisable for someone just starting out, no doubt. As far as always adding it before you refill, no. With experience and depending on the setup & what you wish to achieve it may not be an always thing.

 

Chlorine and chlorimine KILLS harmful bacteria from our drinking water...it also kills beneficial bacteria as well. Adding untreated chlorinated water to the tank could also harm the livestock and should be avoided. We always condition the water before we add it to the aquarium. In the case of adding tap water directly to the tank, we need to have the conditioner already in there at the ready. It is, or should be an 'always thing', as not doing so is just risky.

 

Chlorine levels vary from municipality to municipality, so it is wise to recommend caution.

I speak as someone who has killed off fish solely by forgetting to use the dechlorinator one day, and with a 1/3 tank volume water change. Within a few minutes, the fish were all at the surface, gasping with reddened gills flared. I instantly knew what I'd done, and squirted in the dechlorinator. Most of the fish luckily revived over the next couple of hours, but sadly I lost some rare ones.

That tragedy was back in 1998, and I've been more awake since then. Until a couple weeks ago, when I was filling my 115g tank after removing half the water as usual; when the tank got to about 3/4 full, I happened to notice the fish were all at the far end, not swimming around into the stream as they usually do during water changes. Again I knew that I'd forgotten the dechlorinator, and squirted it in. Fish settled down again.

I use a Python on all tanks except the smallest, a 10g which fills too fast. I add the conditioner to the tank just after I switch the faucet valve to refill the tank and walk back to the fish room. I only add sufficient for the water volume being changed. In 20+ years this has caused no issues, other than the few slip-ups mentioned above.

Byron.

 

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for their opinions and advice. It helps alot

 

I agree that adding dechlor before filling is the safest way to do a water change. However I rarely bother with any type of conditioner, but that is just me. Only for very young fry really. Even doing 50% or more straight from tap while running the filter I have never had a problem. My rainbows always spawn the most the morning after a water change. Typical levels of chlorine found in tap water are very very low. I have tried testing it before and it was well under 1ppm for my location. My current tap has chloramines and 0.25 ppm ammonia. Tanks also have loads of organics which will bind up chlorine/chloramines very fast. They really don't pose much risk to filter bacteria unless the utility does a flush of the pipes which typically happens in spring with all the run off. Also bacteria does live in tap water, quite a few are very commonly found that are not harmful and thus are no concern and also do live quite happily in chlorinated tap water.

I use a hose for changing water. I find the vacuum adapters very wasteful since you have to run the tap while draining which should not been needed. I drain water to my bath tub and fill by unscrewing the showerhead then screwing on a hose with the correct adapter. Showers are usually easier then sinks IMO and also give more water pressure. The typical tubing they use to make pythons has a 1/2" inner diameter and outer doesn't really matter. You can buy 100% vinyl tubing this size for about 30 cents a foot at some hardware/home improvement stores. Some is prepackaged and some is sold buy the foot. They also sell most all adapters you will need for cheap. I have two 30ft+ hoses with adapters that were very cheap. Then I bought a medium sized gravel vac and just stuck the vac end on the hose. One thing to watch out for is any gavel vac with a built in check valve/ one way valve as you won't be able to refill through it.

 

I use a hose for changing water. I find the vacuum adapters very wasteful since you have to run the tap while draining which should not been needed.

Yes, it is very wasteful of water if you want to get the water change done in a timely manner.

Once the siphon starts, you don't NEED to keep the water running... it'll just take a while if you don't. I use a pump to drain the tanks - significantly faster, without wasting water. Also, allows me to drain one tank while filling another with the python.

 

Caution

Just a heads up to new fish keepers. Some experienced fish keepers may not do water changes at all, advocate not using conditioner properly or not using conditioner at all.
But beware that not using conditioner properly may be risky!
As I think Byron pointed out, some municipalities use more chlorine/chloramine than others, sometimes rates increase dramatically under certain circumstances (broken pipe repairs) or times of the year. Some folks have water that isn't even chlorinated at all.
Some folks have just let water sit out and/or agitated because chlorine readily dissipates, however chloramine does not and more and more municipalities have switched (or are switching) to chloramine because it's more effective.

When in doubt, using a conditioner properly by following the manufacturers directions better ensures your fish will not suffer.

 

Thanks for the warning, AD!

While some more experienced fish-keepers may choose, based on a more in-depth understanding of how their specific tanks run, to do things in a way that is not *as* common, it is VERY important for us all to keep in mind those who may have only just started learning about tanks and who may also happen upon this thread. I really appreciate you taking the time to post a bit of information aimed at those who may not know, so that they may proceed with caution. It would be devastating if someone were to accidentally bring harm to their fish because of a lack of understanding. . .

 

Just out of curiosity, you say some companies add more chlorine/chloamine to the water than others, which could easily be true. Is there a way to find out if there is 'excess' in ones tap? And would someone just add extra water conditioner to remove it? What 'limit' does a water conditioner have (obviously a certain amount dechlorinates a set amount of gallons, but does it rely on a certain 'average' amount of chlorine in the water? If that makes sense.)

I ask because sometimes my tap smells very strongly of chlorine (think pool scent), and other times it's completely odorless.

 

It will be in your city's water report.
Most cities average at about 2ppm of chlorine I think.. And Prime I believe is designed to handle up to 4ppm of chlorine per the dosing instructions (other brands may be different though), I know Mikaila will be able correct me there if I'm wrong but that's just off my memory.
I know my city has 2.3ppm of chlorine. Also I do think it may change seasonally or randomly, as stuff like E. coli breakouts do happen here in the waters around here in the summer cause I don't really wanna know why, which may cause water plants to put in more chlorine.

 

There probably are guidelines/regulations in the USA and Canada to limit the amount of chlorine, though I've never looked for them. I have never read of any water conditioner not handling the chlorine in tap water, whatever the level.

I too sometimes can smell it in the tap water; interestingly, I have an allergy to chlorine, just a mild one, I simply sneeze a bit after swimming, or sometimes when doing water changes on the fish.:lol:

And it is quite true that a municipality may increase the amount of chlorine to handle various bacteria, something which is obviously more likely to occur in summer. Back in the mid 1980's I ived in Victoria, BC and the water was very lightly chlorinated. Those of us with fish didn't use a conditioner at all, there was no need, and this went on for years. But one summer a bacterial bloom in the reservoir lake caused the municipality to up the chlorine, and if it was announced in advance, most of us didn't see it. Well, that week, after the water change, we all lost some fish. That was when I started using a conditioner, regardless of the tap water.

Byron.

 

4 ppm is the limit for both chlorine and chloramines in tap water. Though this is rare. A full 4ppm of chlorine is typical for a swimming pool. Most have 2ppm or less. Pretty much every dechlor out there assumes you have 4ppm of chlorine out of the tap and is dose to neutralize for that.

I have no clue on the levels of chlorine or chloramines in my tap but I can certainly smell them some times.

Glad I'm not experienced or 'experienced'.

 

Just a follow-up from the Seachem website

Prime

Product Description
Prime® is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. Prime® removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. Prime® converts ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed by the tank’s biofilter. Prime® may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. Prime® detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them. It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels. Prime® also promotes the production and regeneration of the natural slime coat. Prime® is non-acidic and will not impact pH. Prime® will not overactivate skimmers. Use at start-up and whenever adding or replacing water.

Sizes: 50 mL, 100 mL, 250 mL, 500 mL, 2 L, 4 L, 20 L

Why It's Different
Nearly all companies manufacture a product that removes chlorine. None of those, however, can compare in quality, concentration, or effectiveness to Seachem’s flagship product: Prime®. Prime® is the second most concentrated dechlorinator on the market after our own aquavitro alpha™. A single 100 mL bottle will treat 1000 US gallons of tap water. Prime® will remove both chlorine and chloramines from municipal water supplies.

Prime® also contains a binder which renders ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate non-toxic. It is very important to understand how those two functions work together. All dechlorinators operate through a chemical process known as reduction. In this process, toxic dissolved chlorine gas (Cl2) is converted into non-toxic chloride ions (Cl-). The reduction process also breaks the bonds between chlorine and nitrogen atoms in the chloramine molecule (NH2Cl), freeing the chlorine atoms and replacing them with hydrogen (H) to create ammonia (NH3).

Typically, dechlorinators stop there, leaving an aquarium full of toxic ammonia! Seachem takes the necessary next step by including an ammonia binder to detoxify the ammonia produced in the reduction process.

Be very careful when purchasing water conditioners. If your municipality includes chloramines in the water supplies, a standard sodium thiosulfate dechlorinator is not enough. Prime® promotes the natural production and restoration of the slime coat rather than relying on artificial or non-native slime compounds. A further bonus for the reef hobbyist—Prime® will not overactivate protein skimmers.

Directions
Use 1 capful (5 mL) for each 200 L (50 gallons*) of new water. This removes approximately 1 mg/L ammonia, 4 mg/L chloramine, or 5 mg/L chlorine. For smaller doses, please note each cap thread is approx. 1 mL. May be added to aquarium directly, but better if added to new water first. If adding directly to aquarium, base dose on aquarium volume. Sulfur odor is normal. For exceptionally high chloramine concentrations, a double dose may be used safely. To detoxify nitrite in an emergency, up to 5 times normal dose may be used. If temperature is > 30 °C (86 °F) and chlorine or ammonia levels are low, use a half dose.

 

If you absolutely fell you must use chemicals then add those (like Prime) to the new water before adding it to the tank.

FWIW what I do is plant my tanks and just replace the evaporative water with straight untreated tap water. My water supply has used chlorimine for over a decade. I have never seen any signs of stress to the fish ever with that method and have ran tanks for up to 9 years continuous and several tanks with that mathod since the late '70s in many different cities in the US.

FWIW after municipal water suppliers started using chlorimine they found out the have to flush their systems because the chlorimine breaks down in the storage systems, causing a bloom of the same bacteria we have in our tanks. So much so that often the chlorimine is almost non existant when the water reaches your tap.


my .02

 

Back when I was on city water I did notice te smell of a pool occasionally I always go on the premise of its safe for me to drink its safe for te fish I primarily use prime during plant less new tank when they are cycleing personally I've never lost fish after a poll smelling water change from the tap but then again I've always stayed away from the more sensitive fish which I would assume is the same as new keepers would do but it's a assption

Moral of the story personally I don't use it to condition new water never saw a reason or had problems but every system is different
Posted via Mobile Device

 

I would add top off water untreated, do that at the office, but would not choose to use untreated chlorinated water. Even if the fish seem OK with it I would consider the long term effects that may be cumulative from exposure. Our town uses chlorine so I imagine I would be OK but I know how I react when in a pool with chlorinated water... even a shower has negative effects... glad I'm back on well water.

Prime is cheap enough that cost is not a consideration for me relative to the possible results.

Jeff.

 

After reading these comments, I get the inference that some people feel that it is OK to do a water change with regular tap water + just adding Seachem Prime or other water conditioner.

Would this be almost as good as using R/O water system?

I am considering getting a RO system from costco, but its quite expensive (compared to water conditioners)

I have a 40 gallon FOWLR tank setup but might consider adding corals one day.

 

After reading these comments, I get the inference that some people feel that it is OK to do a water change with regular tap water + just adding Seachem Prime or other water conditioner.

Would this be almost as good as using R/O water system?

I am considering getting a RO system from costco, but its quite expensive (compared to water conditioners)

I have a 40 gallon FOWLR tank setup but might consider adding corals one day.

IMHO for a planted Fw tank tap water is better then ro/di.

And for that matter for a fish and soft coral marine tank as well.

The only real need IMHO for RO/DI is for marine reef tanks with delicate corals which are very sensitive to things like copper and other heavy metals.

The plant life be it fw plants or marine algae and macros will maintain the waste products (ammonia, nitrates, phosphates, co2) of the fish just fine. But most do not realize that plant life also is extremely effective and efficient at filtering out heavy metals as well. To me, given some time and with limited or no water changes even SPS corals in a reef tank can thrive. But most would state you absolutely must use RO/DI water in that environment.

So that's just my .02

 

I think anywhere from 4:1 to 8:1 is the waste water ratio for RO units. That waste has to go somewhere and it typically just goes down the drain. Good to know if you are on a septic system if you use a lot of RO water.

Jeff.

 

I believe (not an expert on SW by any means) that RO or RO/DI water is often used in SW because the minerals are in the marine salt used. It is correct that RO and RO/DI water has all dissolved minerals and trace elements removed and is too pure to be used in the aquarium as fish absorb minerals and trace elements through a form of osmosis. You would need additives to use RO or RO/DI water in a FW aquarium.

Having 'said' that I have read that water in the amazon, due to the massive rain fall, is very pure and on the acidic side. With this in mind, depending on the tap water, one could make a case that very good and pure aquarium water just might be had by mixing tap water 50/50 with RO water. This maybe especially beneficial for some fish (e.g. discus?)
(I've just started doing this somewhat, except I'm using water I'm collecting from my basement dehumidifier instead of RO.)

On the other hand, many of the fish we purchase are tank raised using tap water so going to great lengths to adjust our water may simply not be worth the cost or effort.

I think the bottom line is, as others have mentioned, the use of good tap water, conditioned as/if necessary, will likely yield the best success.

 

If the trace amounts of metals found in tap water can be harmful to fish/corals in a sW environment, is there any water conditioner out there that can remove those trace elements? or is R/O the only solution?

 

If the trace amounts of metals found in tap water can be harmful to fish/corals in a sW environment, is there any water conditioner out there that can remove those trace elements? or is R/O the only solution?

Most water conditioners handle heavy metals, which is what you're thinking of here. Copper, iron, zinc, manganese, etc. Public water systems have to be within specific levels, but what is safe for humans is not so safe for fish with some of these, copper for instance. But a conditioner that detoxifies heavy metals will deal with this.

Having said that, if for some reason your house system is putting these in at high levels, and copper from copper pipes is a possibility, that is a different matter. But it also might not be safe to drink either, if it was that high.

Byron.

 

ur going to pick up some traces and heavy metals from your plumbing. ro/di to my knowledge is the only way around it. but again the amount is minimal but im not sure the effect on SW as ive never done one yet. but I don't see any issues with my plants when using tap. but sw reef and fr plant tanks way different. kinda like apples and oranges.

 

Tip: If/when there's concern about house plumbing (like lead solder sweat copper supply lines), running the water for 3-5 minutes or so clears the water that has been setting in the pipes and the residence time of the running water in the pipes isn't enough to cause a problem.

 

Tip: If/when there's concern about house plumbing (like lead solder sweat copper supply lines), running the water for 3-5 minutes or so clears the water that has been setting in the pipes and the residence time of the running water in the pipes isn't enough to cause a problem.

+1

you broke the code.

I simply use a commonoly used cold water faucet and let it run for a little while before collecting.

By using that method combined with rapidily growing plants/algae things copper are acceptable for any tank including sps types.

Funny thing also is the tank/system all the sudden becomes much less expensive to setup and maintain.

And you do still have to maintain cal, alk, mag plus provide lighting and food for the corals.

But $5 worth of fast growing macros can replace thousands of dollars of equipment and water changes over a few years.

Still just my .


.02


(see I'm really a cheepie :lol