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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
hi

i will say sorry now for not reading other post as i have a disability that mega limits how fast i can read

i am no novice looked after my dads 800 liter and 2x 80 liter tanks since a very young age

now at 24 i have my own setup

4FT tropical tank (147 liters approx)

now i will mention first i have a small army of apple snail 8-9
and as a result of getting given them as baby's i have had the temp turned up to help grow them out a bit faster

FISH =
16 ish sailfin molly's
2 silver sharks
3 golden weather loach's
12-14 neon tetra's
8-9 apple snails

now everything but the molly's still has a way to grow

and i have a slightly over powered 600 liter an hour sponge pump (so not technically over crowded)
an 8 inch air stone/curtain
and aquatic peat under the gravel for my plants

i have all but ruled out it being Bactria as it is growing extreamlly slow even with my cranked heat setting
of 23.4 - 23.5 centigrade = 73.5 F avrg

now i literally just left the fish for some months hoping as i have seen in the past that they would rid of it there self's

now some suggest weekly changes for the water and many more agree daily is the way forward

but without sounding rude in any way

THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN I REFUSE TO STRESS MY FISH WITH DAILY CHANGES AS THE STRESS.
more often than not will worsen any disease, parasite, or many growths

as i stated i looked after a 800 liter tank how often would you think i did a water cycle in that tank.
no wrong, answer is = when it cracked or got moved other wise known as never!!!.

i have had the fish coming up to a year
and had no problems other than a case of white spot brought in after buying new fish prob's in the water that came with the fish as i always check the fish.

MY question is how can i treat for this as most chemicals are not snail friendly and i am a month or 2 off getting my 2nd 3ft tank setup so removing them for a longish period is not an option

i really hope you can help

my ph is 6.2
i have not done a test in months
but because of the over sized filter i can all but 100% garentee that the ammonia and nitrate sit a 0
i will test shortly and post results

thanks in advance for any help/reply's

PS. i have never had to use any chemicals in the tank
 

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hi

i will say sorry now for not reading other post as i have a disability that mega limits how fast i can read

i am no novice looked after my dads 800 liter and 2x 80 liter tanks since a very young age

now at 24 i have my own setup

4FT tropical tank (147 liters approx)

now i will mention first i have a small army of apple snail 8-9
and as a result of getting given them as baby's i have had the temp turned up to help grow them out a bit faster

FISH =
16 ish sailfin molly's
2 silver sharks
3 golden weather loach's
12-14 neon tetra's
8-9 apple snails

now everything but the molly's still has a way to grow

and i have a slightly over powered 600 liter an hour sponge pump (so not technically over crowded)
an 8 inch air stone/curtain
and aquatic peat under the gravel for my plants

i have all but ruled out it being Bactria as it is growing extreamlly slow even with my cranked heat setting
of 23.4 - 23.5 centigrade = 73.5 F avrg

now i literally just left the fish for some months hoping as i have seen in the past that they would rid of it there self's

now some suggest weekly changes for the water and many more agree daily is the way forward

but without sounding rude in any way

THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN I REFUSE TO STRESS MY FISH WITH DAILY CHANGES AS THE STRESS.
more often than not will worsen any disease, parasite, or many growths

as i stated i looked after a 800 liter tank how often would you think i did a water cycle in that tank.
no wrong, answer is = when it cracked or got moved other wise known as never!!!.

i have had the fish coming up to a year
and had no problems other than a case of white spot brought in after buying new fish prob's in the water that came with the fish as i always check the fish.

MY question is how can i treat for this as most chemicals are not snail friendly and i am a month or 2 off getting my 2nd 3ft tank setup so removing them for a longish period is not an option

i really hope you can help

my ph is 6.2
i have not done a test in months
but because of the over sized filter i can all but 100% garentee that the ammonia and nitrate sit a 0
i will test shortly and post results

thanks in advance for any help/reply's

PS. i have never had to use any chemicals in the tank

I have no doubt you have no ammonia or nitrites, but I bet your nitrates are outrageously high if you don't do water changes on any regular basis, no matter how powerful your filter is. This reminds me of a friend, who had a 10 gal and maybe did a water change 4 times a year. I felt so sorry for the one lone redtail shark and a few other tetras she had in there, but they just didn't think fish really "mattered" as they were "alive". Well, they have finally died, and thank God they are not getting more fish. Sure you could probably keep some hardier fish alive, but do they have a quality of life living in poor water conditions? Diseases are caused by poor water, and you likely have columnais, (not spelled correctly) and it's pretty contagious. I'm not sure you can cure it without meds. You could try water changes like 3 times a week, but I'd be curious what others say. You could move the snails out temporarily, and treat as needed. I've not heard of doing daily water changes, that would be overkill, but once a week or at least once every two weeks would not stress fish and they would be healthier, IMO. My fish show no stress from water changes, and I think they really like it when the fresh water is poured in :-D

Gwen
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I have no doubt you have no ammonia or nitrites, but I bet your nitrates are outrageously high if you don't do water changes on any regular basis, no matter how powerful your filter is. This reminds me of a friend, who had a 10 gal and maybe did a water change 4 times a year. I felt so sorry for the one lone redtail shark and a few other tetras she had in there, but they just didn't think fish really "mattered" as they were "alive". Well, they have finally died, and thank God they are not getting more fish. Sure you could probably keep some hardier fish alive, but do they have a quality of life living in poor water conditions? Diseases are caused by poor water, and you likely have columnais, (not spelled correctly) and it's pretty contagious. I'm not sure you can cure it without meds. You could try water changes like 3 times a week, but I'd be curious what others say. You could move the snails out temporarily, and treat as needed. I've not heard of doing daily water changes, that would be overkill, but once a week or at least once every two weeks would not stress fish and they would be healthier, IMO. My fish show no stress from water changes, and I think they really like it when the fresh water is poured in :-D

Gwen
not to doubt you at all

but like i said i tested all 3 aspects of testing in the for-said 180 gallon (800 liter)tank for several years with out them moving from the 0 mark and no cycle ever over the space of at least 5 years

i will test right now and i bet pound to a penny that nitrates is 0

nitrates grow because of over feeding not sitting water in my experience only
also this is dependent on the amount of air in the water 8 plants and a 8" air bar should solve this

even putting your hand in the tank causes stress every-ones opinion on this is different

i could very well be wrong but i will test right now and post the results here

Thank you very much for your reply
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
(AMMONIA = 0 ( NITRITE = 0 (NITRATE = 4.0 < probs because i am over feed on purpose at the minuet and i have an air stone down)

i should be a bit more precise as i forgot once a week or every two i wash my bio sponge in tank water so i remove about 10 liters which is less that 8% water change

this water has not been changed in over 6 months since i had to do a 100% change to replace the stand

i know exactly how to spot stress and have never saw any other than when i changed the stand doing a double migrate in the space of 48 hours in order to do so

also my quite high tank temp mega helps keep nitrate down i do not use a starve day either but will now add one or two a week to keep the nitrate down

i will post back to this post in two month and i bet with no cycle it is at 0 it is all about creating the right and stable environment

a starve day makes a HUGE difference on nitrate levels too :p


but back to the question in hand is there any chemicals that will rid of the fungus that wont kill snails

thanks for the reply's in advance
 

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Anything with Copper Sulfate in it is dangerous to snails and inverterbrates I think. So look for meds without this. Also Nitrates are actually important to the aquarium, and are not harmful as long as they aren't in abundance. Weekly water changes are how you control the nitrate problem. But you obviously have no problem considering they are supposed to be from 5ppm to 40 ppm.

Do you have a pic of this "fungus" it may not be a fungus as I'm pretty sure they are rare in the fish world.

If you post a picture I may be able to tell you what it is.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Anything with Copper Sulfate in it is dangerous to snails and inverterbrates I think. So look for meds without this. Also Nitrates are actually important to the aquarium, and are not harmful as long as they aren't in abundance. Weekly water changes are how you control the nitrate problem. But you obviously have no problem considering they are supposed to be from 5ppm to 40 ppm.

Do you have a pic of this "fungus" it may not be a fungus as I'm pretty sure they are rare in the fish world.

If you post a picture I may be able to tell you what it is.
im on a tank clean atm and am doing a 25% cycle but only because the ph went below 6
my desired is 6.3-6.4

this is just because the peat has been in there for 6 months and i used quite alot lol

will post pic when water cleaned up abit

but look what i just found for my efforts lol

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/members/36525/album/apple-snail-eggs-3554/my-apple-snail-eggs-up-close-23428.jpg
 

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YAY apple snail eggs ^^ they must be very happy 8D
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)

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Sorry it doesn't really help too blurry >.< how about a description? Where is it? What does it look like? You know that sort of thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Sorry it doesn't really help too blurry >.< how about a description? Where is it? What does it look like? You know that sort of thing.
i thought as much it only grows on the tetra's

and only on there fin's INC tail

and on there mouth

it kinda looks like cotton wool when it has got bigger round there mouth

i had a few that got quite bad binned now

yet it never spread onto there body or gills

and as i say it took months upon months for it to grow
even with my cranked temp

i have also added as much tonic salt as i dare with having the neon's as they really dont like

i also tried dipping some into a very strong salt bath waiting for them to float at the top on there side and then extreamly quickly back to the tank where after a few SEC'S they swim off happier than ever yet this also made no odd's at all
 

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Hmmm sounds like Columnaris but since Columnaris is so quick to infect I don't understand why it hasn't infected any of your other fish... >.> Unless it is somehow Neon Tetra Disease but that just doesn't sound like it. Columnaris usually is a secondary infection caused by over crowding or a hi bio-load and where conditions may be stressful due to any number of things. It is a bacterium that kills rather quickly so that also is why it doesn't sound like Columnaris, but if it is, salt wouldn't affect it.

There should be signs of necrosis around the gills and labored breathing. If it's not columanaris I will continue looking for the culprit though I may not come up with anything. I would Isolate them from the rest of the tank though definitely, if you can at least. Look for these signs and tell me if you see any.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Hmmm sounds like Columnaris but since Columnaris is so quick to infect I don't understand why it hasn't infected any of your other fish... >.> Unless it is somehow Neon Tetra Disease but that just doesn't sound like it. Columnaris usually is a secondary infection caused by over crowding or a hi bio-load and where conditions may be stressful due to any number of things. It is a bacterium that kills rather quickly so that also is why it doesn't sound like Columnaris, but if it is, salt wouldn't affect it.

There should be signs of necrosis around the gills and labored breathing. If it's not columanaris I will continue looking for the culprit though I may not come up with anything. I would Isolate them from the rest of the tank though definitely, if you can at least. Look for these signs and tell me if you see any.
NOPE nothing around the gills as i say nothing at all is affected on there body or other fish
they ALL appear to breath fine to:
also water chemisrty is 100% spot on at Amm =0 Nitrite = 0 Nitrate = 3.5
FRESH TEST TODAY :p


i knew it wasn't these things hence why they are still in the tank no other fish or anything is affected either
and also it hasn't passed to all neon's the one's that it started with are the same one's affected
ruling out neon disease

in fact the mollies are some of the best looking health i have ever saw and this is bearing in mind that my dad and i used to breed them for high quality tanks at some very well known establishments lol

i have seen all-sorts of diseases over my time an never one this stubbon

thanks oh so much for your time taken and i hope we can find a solution soon


#HERE IS A SHORT CLOSE-UP VIDEO OF THIS SEE WHAT YOU THINK !!!! ?????

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151443279350650
 

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Stubborn "fungus", Neon Tetras--

Hi there--
I cannot tell you what this is-- But I feel like I know EXACTLY what you are talking about.

My son had a group of 13 neons that had lived for some time in his 29 gallon tank. He is only six, so I am the main care-taker for the tank and did regular water changes and water tests. The only presence was 10 ppm or less of Nitrates at any time-- No ammonia or Nitrites. All the fish seemed to be doing well--

One day I noticed that one neon's mouth looked different-- not like fungus or infection-- but just like it had a small white spot on it. It stayed this way for months and no one else seemed to really think anything was there, but me. It was in July (a couple months after I first noticed it) that it turned into something like looked like a small bubble.-- it was round, not like fungus.

I looked online and read several descriptions of this being a "nick" and something being caught under the skin (like a body fluid, i think it was-- it is now almost April, so this was months ago, so bear with me) and that it would rupture like a blister and be fine, but to watch for fungus. So, I did nothing. It got bigger and bigger until I don't think the fish could eat-- and then the next day, it was gone-- So I thought it was over. The fish never acted sick during this time-- stayed within the group, swam, and ate (and even when the bubble was huge, it still chased for food)

It wasn't until a week or so later, I saw that the nick had returned-- So, not being able to find anything on-line about this, I used something for fungus (and honestly, I cannot remember exactly what, but I think it was Jungle Fungus Eliminator or Fungus Guard)-- It did nothing-- again-- the bubble grew, and popped.

Clearly I should've taken the fish from the tank at this point (or before!). Honestly, it had been at least ten years since we kept fish, and I was returning to it for my son and had forgotten a lot about good care-taking. This had been our first problem encountered in the year+ time his tank was set up, so I did rather poorly this time... but let me continue.

And then, a second neon developed the same thing-- Mouth bubble, pop. I looked on-line again-- and then thought perhaps it was bacterial-- so I used one of the maracyns (and again, i can't remember specifically what at this point-- but in all honesty-- at some point or other, I used them ALL.)-- By this time, fish 3 had gotten a white spot on it's lip, fish 2 was still getting bubbles, and fish one had bubbles and now a ragged tail.

I finally decided to remove ALL the neons. None of the other fish showed any signs of illness (there weren't many-- a pleco, some corys, and a 3 swordtails. This may have been something that came in on a female swordtail. She promptly had babies in the tank (2 survived) and then she died.)

I think it was Christmas when the first neon died-- The path of whatever this was seemed to be-- White lips, bubble (recurring), ragged fins, white-stuff on body. (I believe increased slime coat and not fungus)-- I have been calling it "neon tetra disease", but honestly, it sounds nothing like neon tetra disease from what I've read. The description in later phases is like columnaris, but it responds to nothing that is supposed to help with columnaris.

I very carefully and slowly tried different medications, kept the water quality up, did water changes and carbon changes between medications, allowing "breaks" between-- I have used Jungle Fungus (eliminator or guard), Maracyn and Maracyn II, Maracyn Oxy, Coppersafe, Melafix, Primafix. Nothing has had the slightest effect. I think it must've taken about 6 months to run through all of those (some I used concurrently when it was labeled ok to do so) and then just resigned to letting it run it's course. I keep the water very clean, test it's parameters, and still, each one follows the same path. Now, over 9 months after noticing the first white lips, there are 5 neons left of the original 13. 3 of these currently have the 'bubbles' and nothing else, one has bubbles and ragged tail, and one is covered in the white slimey looking fungus-looking stuff. Even so-- they all act TOTALLY NORMAL-- trying to eat, etc, until they die.

Because I happened to get some maracyn plus recently for a new glass cat I have that was having some bacterial issues (different tank of course!), I decided to try maracyn plus (which until this point I couldn't find anywhere) in the neon tank. I put the last dose in today and have honestly seen absolutely no change, not even in the 3 fish that are just beginning with their problems. (I wish I would've had enough fish tanks to try to seperate the ill ones from the healthy, but really, once I realized that I was dealing with something big and contagious, they would've all been exposed.)

No other fish in my son's tank has had any issues. It only affected the Neons.

I have no idea what this is, have found no information on line, and it has responded to no treatments. I am normally not a medication-happy person (I don't even take tylenol for myself!)-- but after watching these poor fish go through this process, I wanted to try everything, thinking it couldn't be worse then what their fate seemed to be. The "hospital tank" has become a "hospice tank".

(This really left me dumbfounded-- When I was a child, I always had a ten gallon tank in my bedroom and I can't say I really knew anything about keeping fish back then-- I would clean the tank when it looked dirty, basically, and throw out the floss and carbon from my old-fashioned filter and replace it now and then. (I cringe now about the poor fish I kept back then!)-- and the type of fish I always had in the tank were Neons-- and honestly, somehow they survived my poor, negligient, ignorant care! So to have this problem on such a big scale in a tank that-- by all tests and evidence-- was being well-kept, somewhat pulled the rug from beneath me and has left me shy of neons.)

I would love to hear any experience or advice on these few remaining little fellows. (I would've euthanized them all if they didn't seem so NORMAL otherwise... now I am just letting them live-out their lives, I guess.)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hi there--
I cannot tell you what this is-- But I feel like I know EXACTLY what you are talking about.

this sounds nothing like what i have

also nothing has ever been affected on there body like you mentioned it been on them for like nearly 5 month before posting and never moved of mouth or fins an tail no other fish is showing signs of it or nothing i reallly want to know what it is and also i have never tried anything for treating this

other than salt which i see is missing from your list
 

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Discussion Starter #16
i get a new tank Tuesday so i can remove the snails and then try some treatments any suggestions people
 

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This seems like something similar I'm going through with my Emperor Tetras right now. So far out of 14 only 2-3 have been effected and no other fish show signs. But here is what I've found I'm dealing with and you might be too. I can't say for sure because it's hard to tell but if you read up on it it might be the same.

Tropical Fish Disease Identification with pictures and cures.
^^^ info about roundworms

Important: How To Get Rid Of Camallanus/nematode Worms - Aquarium Fish Forum - 41023
^^^^ how to treat
 

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Neons

I did try salt-- first just in the tank, then stronger as a dip. (Years ago, I used to put a little salt in all our tanks back when that was the thinking on the issue, as opinions on this changed, I stopped doing it automatically)

The fuzzy-white (I think excess-slime coat) is produced WAY at the end of the development of whatever this is. Like I said-- I still have four fish that, to someone not looking closely for a problem, would appear totally normal at most times. (Because the mouth issues seems to get worse, then not so bad) and the fins are not too badly ragged (they get some white spottiness on them as well, but it's not too bad at this point on those that have it)

It is SLOW to progress. It's been 9 months since I first noticed anything, and I still have five fish left, so you can see. Nothing has worked. It hasn't even made a bit if difference. I've tried to look at the fish that have died with a magnifying glass, but really couldn't find any parasites. (Also, I did try another treatment a friend recommended-- I think it was called Quick Cure, which since then I've read is nasty stuff.)

I even wondered if they had something like tuberculosis or something like that, but it just doesn't seem to match anything I've found on-line, and the pet store employee that I really trust (she's worked there 17 years) was left clueless too. I was going to euthanize them all because it seemed to be what was sort of suggested on WetWebMedia when others wrote in on uncurable problems, but I couldn't do it. So far, I've only euthanized one and that is because it had gotten so bad and was just lingering. (others did not seem to linger)

I am wondering if the whitish stuff on the body is just secondary from the other thing taking it's toll.

I wish you luck with whatever your fish have-- but unfortunately what I've learned from this is sometimes, no matter what you are willing to try and do and what you are willing to spend and how far you are willing to travel to get it, it just doesn't work. We don't know enough. It's sad.
 
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