[angelcraze]

I have a question. PraziPro (praziquantel) "treats conditions caused by: flukes, tapeworms, flatworms, tubellarians."

What I wanted to know is if PraziPro kills internal parasites and I only have to use that one med if I suspect these worms to be in my aquarium.

The reason I ask is because my trusted LFS told me that PraziPro only paralyses the worms, causing them to fall out of the fish (to put it politely), and that there is a risk of the worms re-infecting the fish later. The LFS told me that I'd have to use an antibiotic or antibacterial med to kill off the paralysed, shed parasites. In the same breath he said, that is very harsh on your fish and bio.

I trust him, he is very knowledgeable and smart, I just couldn't find any other info supporting this, or not supporting this actually. And, I just don't understand how an antibiotic or antibacterial med can kill a parasite or worm anyway.

Anyone know how to clear my thoughts? Prove me wrong?

I want to use this in my 120g tank I think has internal parasites, but I want to know more about it before I use it.

 

[RackinRocky]

Just here to give you support, Angel. But I agree--how in the world could an antibiotic kill a worm? Doesn't make sense at all. I've heard and read the same thing--that the Prazi only paralyzes the worms. I am treating two tanks right now, and the Prazi seems to have done something. I've only seen two fish with the camallanus worms coming out of the vent, and now, after my third treatment of Prazi along with Fenbendazole, I don't see any more worms. I've only lost one fish, and she was badly infested, and I think the worms just did too much damage to her intestines. At the end, the worms all came out, but she was too weak to carry on. But, like I said, I used the Prazi PLUS Fenbendazole. Now I'm hearing that the Fenbendazole ALSO only paralyzes the worms. This is just so overwhelming. Not only are there so many meds available, but people seem to get vastly difference results from the same drugs!

 

[lilnaugrim]

As far as I know, no over-the-counter dewormer will kill the worms but only paralyze them so they are able to be passed. Right before 24 hour period, you do a large 75-100% water change to get rid of the worms and eggs passed.

And yes, I agree about the antibiotics, I'm quite sure they won't kill the worms either.

It depends on what type of worms your fish has for what meds you want to use. PraziPro has been ruled ineffective for callamanus worms and even Fenbendazole is a 50/50 chance of working. But to be actually effective you need to follow the plan; dose (if using the Canine version use 1/3 of a packet for one cube of bloodworms to be fed to the fish) and before 24 hours is up do a large water change of at least 75% and clean the gravel best you can to get rid of the worms that fell out because yes, they can infect again. After a week dose again and do another change, do the same for the third week. Third week is not overly necessary but if you have a bad case, it's best not to chance it.

 

[Agent13]

some worms are killed by it..not just paralyzed. Tapeworms lose the ability to avoid digestion when exposed to it as I think a few others.
However I still suggest large water changes.

Are we sure Fenben doesn't kill the parasites??

 

[lilnaugrim]

Yeah, I was just doing more research, I stand corrected.

Fenbendazole does kill both worms and eggs. http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/anthelminticswork.html

 

[RackinRocky]

And that's yet another missing piece in the puzzle--which meds to use for which parasites? Opinions seem to vary on this too. Also, unless you actually SEE the red callamanus worms, how would you know what parasites to treat for, and thus, which med to use? If a fish is just wasting away, (due to parasites) how do we choose a med? I am aware of the Fenbendazole not being effective for everyone. I was going to order the Levamisole for that, but figured that since I'd already gone out and bought the Fen, that I'd use that first, and if it doesn't work I'll order the other. According to the guy, the Levamisole does actually kill the nematodes. I guess I'll just have to wait for signs of worms again. I've read different opinions on how long between wormings you should go. I used to be a vet tech, and the eggs hatch every 2-3 weeks on most canine parasites (roundworms, whipworms, etc.) So we dewormed dogs every 2 weeks. Now, every week seems like too often if the same is true in fish parasites. I've never known a small animal vet to deworm weekly. If you deworm too soon, you're going to miss the newly hatched worms. If you deworm too late, there is the possibility of more worms producing more eggs that won't be caught. Between us and all our research, you'd think we could come up with some concrete answers!

 

[RackinRocky]

Okay, just saw the last two posts. They didn't show up when I posted, for some reason. The guy who has Levamisole told me that the Fen would not kill the nematodes, so now I don't know what to think. I guess I'll find out in the next few weeks or months of watching fish butts, lol.

 

[lilnaugrim]

As for Levimasole, that one does not kill the worms but paralyzes, that's what I was thinking of before and thought that one and Fenbendazole worked the same buuut I was wrong lol.

 

[RackinRocky]

Maybe I'm using the right one after all! That's good to know.

 

[lilnaugrim]

Yeah, you don't need the PraziPro though, it won't touch callamanus (camallanus is the same thing) worms, the Fenben should be good enough.

 

[Agent13]

personally the route of my choice would be a 50/50 mix of fenben and metronidazole(to cover any protozoan infestation) .. However not showing signs of anything other then some type worm? I'd skip metro and treat with fenben 2 times a day for 3 days then repeat in 7-14 days .. I'd recommend 14 unless you don't notice enough improvement after the 1st 7 days

 

[angelcraze]

I think I need to make a new post on which dewormer to use for which sitch. My observation is a fat abdomen, overly fat, like going to burst, and I just noticed little black dots (entry or exit points of worms?) on their bellies. This is 3 black phantom female tetras. They have been alive for 1 1/2 years in the tank. Is it possible for them to have parasites and not be killed all this time? If I keep the water quality extremely well? Here's a pic of one. This bloat happens over and over, for that long, the fish does not have trouble eating, swimming, and acts normal. I don't think this bloat is just genetic anymore. Would I have to use Fen for that, or can I just use Prazi?

 

[RackinRocky]

WOW, you aren't kidding about them being bloated! I'm curious to see what others will have to say about this.

 

[angelcraze]

OOOh, that kind of makes me feel like a bad fish mommy ;P That is a pic of one, the worst, but the three of them get like that over and over for over a year. Like I said, they still act normally, eat, swim.......I just didn't know what was wrong??? Decided it was internal parasites.......

 

[lilnaugrim]

I honestly don't know, I've never dealt with it in characins before, only Bettas and Angels now. Can you isolate the three and watch their poo? You should see something in it if they have parasites. How much do you feed and what foods do you use?

From my personal experience, the fish who had callamanus never really become so bloated but then again, they didn't last long either so...yeah, I'm not sure.

 

[angelcraze]

Thanks all!!! I think I've found something. Stopped off at the LFS again. I bought General Cure after talking with them. I read on the back on the package the symptoms: Swollen Abdomen: Fish infected with tapeworms often have an extended or swollen abdomen....Fish normally show signs of reduction in growth and general malaise." This describes my black phantoms perfectly!!! They are stunted with swollen abdomens. So I am 97% sure they have tapeworms. So I've diagnosed, now I figure out the best medicine.

 

[RackinRocky]

How are things going? IS the GC helping?

 

[Kim]

Unfortunately those are the symptoms of most helminthic infections - it is very difficult to tell just what type of worms are the problem. When I suspect internal parasites, I mix up some medicated food very similar to the stuff sold as Jungle Anti-Parasitic Medicated Food several years back (no longer on the market). It is 0.4% levamisole, 1% metronidazole, and praziquantel (can't find the percent right now). I mix .4% levamisole and 1% metro with frozen food and focus (5:1 ratio of focus to medication) and feed for 5-7 days. I follow with a dose of prazi in the water column, but if I got my hands on some powdered form I would just mix this with the food as well. Repeat in several weeks.

This will take care of all the major types of parasites: levamisole for the nematodes, metro for the protozoans, and prazi for the trematodes.

 

[RackinRocky]

Looks like you have all bases covered, Kim! Too bad the stuff is no longer available. So... if a person were to have levamisole, metro, and Prazi available, I suppose you could mix your own formula. Somethnig to think about. Thank you for your input.

 

[angelcraze]

Hi again. So RRocky, I didn't use the metro yet. Before I read any responses, I still was set on that there were tapeworms in the tank. I did a large w/c Thursday night and added PraziPro. The very next day, the 3 angelfish still in the tank were at top strata again, like normal, and the tetras were active, although I never noticed them not being active, they just seemed healthier to me. So no adverse reactions to the PraziPro, even the nerite snails I left in were fine. I am not saying they are cured, just seemed better.

The badly bloated black phantom tetras in the pic was still bloated the same. The other two looked almost normal, although their bloating seems to go up and down and it's hard to tell them apart. Other than that, no observations with the tetras.

I have three angelfish still in the 120g. One male, one female gold pearlscale and one female smokey. The smokey one seemed to have gotten skinnier the last little bit and was not crazy about eating. She is new to me, and I thought maybe she was breathing fast, but I wasn't sure. Her gill on one side looked funny to me too, but like I said, she is new and I don't know this fish. Funny, like extended, not mucus covered, and no black spots, just like the inside gill was longer (maybe ragged-edged?) on one side. Idk what colour it's supposed to be, but there was not much colour at all, so white/grey. She started hiding at the bottom of the tank, breathing fast and not eating much, only pretending to eat. After I put the Prazi in, she was back at the top and eating flakes with enthusiasm. It got me thinking maybe these were gill flukes? Maybe I am dealing with a bunch of parasitic worms? Just great. At least Prazi takes care of most of these, and was easy on the tank and fish.

Another thing I noticed with this smokey angelfish, was when she ate, she would shake/twitch her head back and forth like she was not getting it down. That's if she ate food. She seemed paler to me, and THEN, after my water change, I saw these short white worms-like things protruding from her face. They disappeared after 20 mins or so, and if you look real close, they are flush with her skin, but present as slightly lighter spots. Not ich. I feel I hallucinated. Until I see it again, I will assume I did, because I have never seen that before, and have no idea what that is. I tried to get a pic, but I don't think it showed up. Now I look psycho, lol.

My two god pearlscale angels were a pair, but I have not seen them spawn in a while. Last night, I saw them twitching at eachother. I think that a good sign, it looks to me like they may be wanting to spawn again and are re-dating. Seems weirds things would get better so quickly, so maybe just coincidence, or I am wrong, but I will keep this updated.

I still plan to feed them Metronidazole for a while. I will have to Prazi again in a few weeks even if it was just tapeworms to get the eggs that hatch. What a PITA, but at least no one else got too sick.