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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited by Moderator)
reference:

Curious then, do you get algae/cyano problems then?

Also more idle curiosity here. If you were to set up a 10 gallon tank using your ideally preferred method could you walk me through it exactly.. substrate, stock, plants how you'd do the cycle(if you do cycle ..you do right?) . Maintenance, decor, equipment etc.
or if you have a 10g setup could you just explain that one ? and maybe a picture?

Pwetty pwetty pwease??
from thread:


http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/advanced-freshwater-discussion/effect-prime-oxygen-levels-aquarium-294058/

I posted this on another forum site and one poster titled their build thread as the beaslbob build just because it 'had a ring to it' :lol: You can now google beaslbob build or beaslbob method and get many hits.

So here is what I do:

equipment required

tank (10g used here) $15 or so.

old timie 2 tube incandescent hood. ($20 bought seperate and new but sometimes included in 10g starter kits or available at thrift centers and the like).

2 11-14 watt skinny spiral pig tail 6500k floursent bulbs. Designed to replace incandescent bulbs. Wall mart had GE packages clolored blue with "6500k" vertical down the sides. 2 tubes ~$5 or so. Note: the wattage it not the much higher equilivant incandescent wattage which is the wattage of an equilivant incandescent bulb).

1 1'x1'x3' plastic bag if canadain sphagum peat moss. $11 building supply stores. (note no ferts added)

1 50 pound premium play sand. building supply stores $3.

1 50 pound bag pro choise select. from: Pro's Choice Products. $6. (Had to contact that manufacturer to get a local source.)

plants: 4 bunches of anacharis, 4 Vallisneria, 4 small potted types (swords, crypts etc), 1 amazon sword.. (for reference check out: Vals, Corkscrew (Vallisneria americana) (10 plants per order) ) ~$30-50 or so.

some kind of stand to put aquarium on.

setup:

1) place 1" of peat moss in the tank. Add water up to the top of the peat moss. Level the moss and clean the edges of the tank.

2) Place 1" of play sand on top of the wet moss. Repeat the adding water, leveling and cleaning.

3) Place 1" of pc select on top of the sand and again add water, level, and clean.

4) Add the plants. I like the anacharis in back, vals down the sides, the potted left and right of center and the amazon sword more or less centered. Then level the pc select till it looks nice.

5) Using water from a commonly used cold water faucet add water poured over a dish untill the tank is full.

6) Add the lights and turn on 8-10 hours per day.

7) Do nothing but admire the tank for 1 week.

8) Add a single fish. If live bearer a singe male. I like the dwarf sunburst platties.

9) Do nothing for one week but admire how active the fish is and wonder why he is pooping so nicely. If you feed that fish it will die on the 5th day.

10) Add 2 females (of you use live bearers) or 4 other fish if you did not use live bearers.

11) start feeding 1 flake per day.

upkeep.

1) Feed very lightly.

2) Replace evaporative water with water from a cold faucet that has been ran for a minute or so.

3) If the tank clouds up, you have algae, or cyano, kill the light and stop feeding until it clears up.

Just to be sure you uderstand.

1) no chemicals of any type

2) no mechanicals of any kind. No filters, No airstone. Nothing

3) don't worry about the snail bloom after a few weeks. Do Nothing. In a year there will only be a few left.

Once ot twice a year of maybe more often you may want to "clean" the mulm on the substrate. Just don't get carried away. Don't stir up the substate.

And of course you will probably have to harvest the plants from time to time.




here is a such as it is picture of a 20g long. Notice the "high tech" lighting. :lol:




Here is the cycle parameters of that 20g long FW





So there it is.

the "beaslbob build". Which has had the same results in may cities in teh US as I was transferred aorund in the air force.

It's just my take on the time honored natural or balanced or walstad or lieden methods. You basically establish a balance eco system right from the start and let that take care of the tank.

and worth at most.

.02
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Beaslbob build Parameters example

I can't access my test results from work so will post that and vid of a tank from home tonight.

:oops:
 

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I think people in general "do" too much to their tanks. Thanks for sharing.
 

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Thanks!
"2 11-14 watt skinny spiral pig tail 6500k floursent bulbs" <-lol!!!

oh curious,, is the peat moss for PH issues or some other reason?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks!
"2 11-14 watt skinny spiral pig tail 6500k floursent bulbs" <-lol!!!

oh curious,, is the peat moss for PH issues or some other reason?
that actually is an excellent question.

PH with or without the peat moss rises to purple on the api high range test kit. (8.4-8.8)

I found out that with just play sand kH rose to over 20 degrees and gH rose to 40 degrees or more.

And neon tetras did not do well.

But with the peat moss kH stayed at 4 degrees and gH at 9 degrees for over 2 years.

And neon tetras thrived.


I think the pH is high because the plants are removeing the co2 and returning oxygen. Plus the lack of circulation deters those values from more closely matching atmospheric conditions.

But then I worry that most people expecially newbies would try to change those values. Meanwhile, the fish in my tanks just keep swimming and swimming and swimming.

my .02
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking you were dealing with PH from the tap issues.

and thanks for response. :lol:

Kinda hard to wrap your mind around but give this a thought.

With this system the quality of the tap water is not anywhere nearly as important as when water changes are being done. PH and all other parameters in the tank's environment are overwhelmingly a function of the tank itself. Therefore, the a safe environment in the tank can be setup and maintained with just about any potable tap water. I don't intend to test it but I honestly don't think the input water has to be even potable. (afterall plants are used to clean up enviromental toxic wastes). So as long as the plants are thriving the water will be conditioned to support the fish.

my .02
 

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only a single experiment that was vaguely similar

took dried plant clippings from the tank, chopped them up and threw them in a bucket to break down, ... sure the ammonia skyrocketed, ... but the PH was well above 7.5, (limits of test kit i had)

took about a week before ammonia readings were zero (or close enough)

i was thinking of trying something similar with peat moss to see if it would give a lower PH

your beaslbob build, sounds simular, about a week for things to finish breaking down and ammonia levels to drop.

maybe i'm missing the obvious, ... could you elaborate on this please:
PH with or without the peat moss rises to purple on the api high range test kit. (8.4-8.8)

I found out that with just play sand kH rose to over 20 degrees and gH rose to 40 degrees or more.

But with the peat moss kH stayed at 4 degrees and gH at 9 degrees for over 2 years.
-i'm assuming nutrients in the water column are lower with the sandy cap (as the only difference)
-i don't quite get what you mean by the PH being the same with or without the peat ... is that the same reading as your tap water ?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
only a single experiment that was vaguely similar

took dried plant clippings from the tank, chopped them up and threw them in a bucket to break down, ... sure the ammonia skyrocketed, ... but the PH was well above 7.5, (limits of test kit i had)

took about a week before ammonia readings were zero (or close enough)

i was thinking of trying something similar with peat moss to see if it would give a lower PH

your beaslbob build, sounds simular, about a week for things to finish breaking down and ammonia levels to drop.

maybe i'm missing the obvious, ... could you elaborate on this please:


-i'm assuming nutrients in the water column are lower with the sandy cap (as the only difference)
-i don't quite get what you mean by the PH being the same with or without the peat ... is that the same reading as your tap water ?

I meant the final pH of the tank water.

And this was confirmed with an experiment I did with quart mason jars with various substates. Some planted with lights and others kept in darkness.

The planted lit jars all rose to a pH of 8.4 or higher with plant life.

that unlit jars had pH valuse much lower with peat jars the lowest.

IMHO the plants suck out the carbon dioxide which raises the pH.

And oh yea neon tetras live for years at those pH levels.

my .02
 

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plants also consume nutrients in the water column that would otherwise raise the PH (not just CO2)

would have me thinking, the cap lowers the rate nutrients are released into the water column till it's slow enough the plants can keep the levels in the water column down

I have heard peat moss (sphagnum peat moss) when alive, can hold up to 40% of it's mass as water to deal with long periods without rain (or other sources of water to hydrate it). as this turns into a large store of water, the moss's natural defense to keep this water free from an infection is to keep this water acidic. I THINK this is where adding peat moss to substrates is done in an attempt to keep the PH lower.

i would think, (from your tests) this is more of an old-wives-tale than reality, ... (but honestly i don't know)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
plants also consume nutrients in the water column that would otherwise raise the PH (not just CO2)

would have me thinking, the cap lowers the rate nutrients are released into the water column till it's slow enough the plants can keep the levels in the water column down

I have heard peat moss (sphagnum peat moss) when alive, can hold up to 40% of it's mass as water to deal with long periods without rain (or other sources of water to hydrate it). as this turns into a large store of water, the moss's natural defense to keep this water free from an infection is to keep this water acidic. I THINK this is where adding peat moss to substrates is done in an attempt to keep the PH lower.

i would think, (from your tests) this is more of an old-wives-tale than reality, ... (but honestly i don't know)
I think it does act to lower the pH but after a few weeks the plants sucking out the co2 overrides the effect.

Also read on a canadian peat moss site that for soil it actually hold ammonia to be released later.

If that is true then it should also help trap ammonia in our tanks durint the initial cycle.

my .02
 

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When you clean your substrate once or twice a year as you stated.. about what percentage of your water volume would you say you tend to change? I'm just wondering how you clean it when you say you never do water changes..is there a certain amount that doesn't count? Or do you have one of those eheim vacs?

Does the tank by all appearances look clean when kept this way?
Sorry if this seems like an interrogation but I'm trying to get a complete view of your fish keeping method. Or maybe it's more the Aquarium keeping method then the fish themselves I'm "investigating" ;-) (Since I think for the most part we keep vastly different fish aside from maybe my kids 16g tank)
 

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i've heard humus does that, if i remember correctly, it's like MTS (mineralized top soil) without the mess, i also think it might have a source of ammonia for a nitrogen source for the plants, ... i'm a lot less sure about the ammonia part though
 

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Discussion Starter #15
When you clean your substrate once or twice a year as you stated.. about what percentage of your water volume would you say you tend to change? I'm just wondering how you clean it when you say you never do water changes..is there a certain amount that doesn't count? Or do you have one of those eheim vacs?

Does the tank by all appearances look clean when kept this way?
Sorry if this seems like an interrogation but I'm trying to get a complete view of your fish keeping method. Or maybe it's more the Aquarium keeping method then the fish themselves I'm "investigating" ;-) (Since I think for the most part we keep vastly different fish aside from maybe my kids 16g tank)
I remove as little water as possible when cleaning up the substrate.

Water looks clear when dont correctly. With higher lighting and feeding it does get cloudy. I a totally dark tank the water remain clear. So the "trick" is to hit a balace where you have healthy plants and fish with clear water.

my .02
 

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Discussion Starter #16
parameters and pictures

Better late then never.

(Wish admin would move to my original post.)



here is a such as it is picture of a 20g long. Notice the "high tech" lighting. :lol:






Here is the cycle parameters of that 20g long FW


 

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Water looks clear when dont correctly.
my .02
here is a such as it is picture of a 20g long. Notice the "high tech" lighting. :lol:

I though you said the water would look clear when done correctly..did you do something wrong *Not judging ! Ducks head * lol Sorry I couldn't stop my fingers from typing. I'm a little anal retentive I confess. I'm that mom who is up till 2am cleaning up till the house looks like the kids were never there.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
actually the water is clear but there is a slight algae on the back glass
 

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i've got algae all over in my tank, ... i am looking for different algae, but dono what i could find that would suit my purposes, ...

there is the typical algae types, long and stringy, short and bushy, or forming fluffy clumps, shades of green or black (cyano aside),

actually cyano has me curious about nitrates as well, i came across something (one thing only actually) that mentioned cyanobacteria can increase nitrates directly from N2, ... most cyanobacterias are toxic, but i think some are safe. a random thought for dealing with planted tanks that have a nitrogen deficiency.

but with other algae types, than the typical ones that affect most peoples freshwater tanks, i'm sure some have some rather unique appearances and may be rather nice to have in a tank. provided they don't get out of hand.
 

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actually cyano has me curious about nitrates as well, i came across something (one thing only actually) that mentioned cyanobacteria can increase nitrates directly from N2, ... most cyanobacterias are toxic, but i think some are safe. a random thought for dealing with planted tanks that have a nitrogen deficiency.
.
I'm pretty sure it's more the cyanobacteria in marine tanks that are harmful. It can however starve your plants in freshwater but mostly it's just ugly and difficult if it gets out of control. It's really already in small amounts in all places on earth but only noticeable when given the right circumstances to "bloom" .
 
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