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Seems pretty decent. I would use pvc for the return line and the intake line.
 

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Glass. The others will give a little. Glass wont give under the pressure of the water.
 

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Not fantastic. Roger, If you want to do it right, have your return in the middle, split the over flow to either side, one for the skimmer, the other for the fuge. that way you're not skimming out the bugs from the fuge (which you'll want to be carried up to the main display for live food suppliment, and youre not skimming out the nutrients that feed the fuge life.


Refugium>Skimmer>Return: Worst option. Skims out the copepods, mysis, and other bugs residing in the Refugium before they can be carried up to the display tank where they would have been beneficial in replenishing the live food supply, as well as the consumption of detritus in the tank. Defeats the purpose of the refugium (aside from the Nutrient Export via Macro Algae cultivation)

Skimmer>Refugium>Return: Better option. Skims out food for the copepods, mysis, and other bugs residing in the Refugium

Refugium>Return<Skimmer: Best option. Allows tank water entering and exiting the refugium to be unaffected by the skimmer.

I wish someone had been smart enough to point this out to me when I was asking questions.
 

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Not true. I used to believe that.

We can argue as much about this as lighting.

I used to believe the same thing.


I dare someone to show me a skimmer cup full of copepods.

I've found about 3 in 3 years.


The little of the benefit that may be skimmed out is such a tiny fraction as to not count. It matters little if the water exiting the fuge goes into the skimmer. Your tank produces plenty of pods if set up correctly.

Now for my final argument and then I'll leave you to slam my response again, How many pods do you think survive the trip through the blender known as the return pump? It helps to think it all through before you respond.

You can build a sump that has the skimmer chamber on one side, the fuge on the other and the return pump in the middle, I've seen a lot of headache go into keeping the water level correct in those set ups. I won't say that is a bad way to do it, unlike my friend above. Both ways are great.

Remember that the copepods IN the fuge are the beneficial copepods, they are helping to break down excess large particulate matter, once they leave the fuge they are only considered a food source, be it one that is whole and swimming or one that is pureed by the pump. There won't be thousands of them pouring over and into any other chamber as they typically stay attached to the macro algae and rock work, just like in the display. So the very few that do make it over and the one a month that might get caught in the skimmer do not matter.

Any takers?
 

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okay CRM, I have a Q or two for you.

If your skimmer is doing an efficient job, then the skimmate it's producing should be a dark brownish greenish somewhere inbetweenish. How might one go about counting the bugs that make it into the skimmer? and how would one go about standing the stench long enough to count past the number three?

If "the blender known as the return pump" were to effectively puree any copepods inadvertently taking the trip up to the display, then would it not stand to reason that the skimmer pump would do the same? that being the case how would you expect to see them in your skimmate?

With what logic would the placement of the return chamber have on the procedures, methods, and overall ease of water level maintenance?

With all due respect, I agree with one thing. It helps to think it all through before you respond.

On a final note, I did not say that the other two methods were not effective. I simply stated that, some options were better than others.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
sounds like a cat fight to me. just kidding guy well thank you both for the info. just a reminder to both of you I don't think everyone will have the same answer to a question that Is why I like to post questions because I get so many different answars. So thank You both. it have been helpfull but also confusing.

Roger
 

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No pissin' match here. Just providing a difference of opinion. Besides, CRM knows I respect his knowledge and input. I should think by now he knows to take my posts with a grain of salt and never take me too seriously for too long. I'm like that little kid who runs around with a yardstick thwacking bees nests. :D
 

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Attention caferacermike & SKAustin

IMHO both of you deserve recognition for the valuable information and time that you both put in on this forum

Myself I have been very interested in regards this thread as I am upgrading my tank & sump & have learnt some valuable info on the sump design

cheers to both of you :)
 

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Another consideration you need to make when setting up your sump is, "What will happen in the event of a power outage?"

When you shut you return pump off, water from the main tank will flow down to the sump. You need to maintain a 'safe' area in you sump so you don't have a flood. To determine the water volume the formula is (L" x W" x H") / 231 = volume in gallons. (make sure you're measuring the inside dimensions of the tank)

Figure out the minimum "safe zone" needed in the sump by Calculating the volume of water between the water in the display tanks normal operating level, and the minimum overflow point. Then add consideration for any additional water that will drain out from the plumbing

Here's an example. My tank is a 55 gallon, my sump was created from a 20 gallon long. There is 1/2" between normal operating level, and the minimum level before the overflow stops. There is 3.5" between the top of my baffles and the top of my sump (measured to the bottom of the trim, not to the actual top of the tank). Now lets look at the math.

Tank overflow (12.00 x 47.50 x 0.50) / 231 = 1.24

If we add 1/2 gallon of water for each the overflow pipe, and the return pipe, that leaves the necessary safe zone at 2.24 gallons.

Sump "safe zone" (11.81 x 23.67 x 3.50) / 231 = 4.23

The actual "safe zone" (4.24 gallons) is nearly twice the necessary capacity (2.24 gallons). So in the event of a power outage, no flood.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
well this pump is 1025gph at 3 feet. that is about how hight the pump will be pumping. I don't know a way to calculate exact head loss with all the plumbing in and everything entill it is done.

Roger

thanks for the formula!!! I will be using that I will be starting to build the tank stand and wall on monday 2 days.
 

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This might help too.

SKAustin said:
I have sheets of non-corrigated cardboard. I measure and cut strips the width of the baffle spacing. I then bend the strips into a circle and staple them. These circles are then used as a spacer between the baffles. If you lay the tank on end, you can work your way up without having to wait for the silicone on the previous piece to set.

how to silicone a clean bead between the bubble trap baffles:
The first baffle of the bubble trap can be mounted normally. Once the first baffle is in place, measure and mark with a pencil or marker on the outside of the tank, the location of the second baffle. Keep in mind, the bigger the space between baffles, the slower the water will flow through the trap, and the slower the water flows through the trap, the better the trap will function. Once you have marked your location on the top and bottom of each side (and either side of the bottom if the baffle goes to the bottom), run a piece of masking tape to make a line all the way around the outside of the tank where your baffle will be. Place a bead of silicone around the inside of the tank using the line as a guide. Now place your spacer in and then slide the baffle into place. If this was done properly, the baffle should have pushed the bead of silicone enough that the silicone fills any space between the baffle and the glass. Now use a 1/2" dowel to reach in between the baffles. Run the end of the dowel up the bead of silicone to force it further into any gaps, and to round off the bead. Let that set for a bit, then run a standard bead around the outside of the baffle.

Voila! One down, one to go.
 
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