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Discussion Starter #1
I'm already well...to put it in nicer words "puffered" off over how the entire layout of this place had become a distracting eye sore but really?

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/betta-fish-articles/mycobacteria-125895/page22/

This needs to be moved. This thread was based on one person who had a really bad experienced and freaked out completely. It is a bunch of pages of people and their opinions. This does not belong in the Article Section. Would you please move it?
 

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Actually we are reviewing all the Bettafish Articles and once we decide what we are keeping we'll make changes.
Thank you for letting us know there are issues with it.
 

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Jakiebabie, thanks for looking into that for Saguinefox. Thank you Fox for bringing that to our attention.

I'm already well...to put it in nicer words "puffered" off over how the entire layout of this place had become a distracting eye sore but really?
Fox,

I would like to know exactly why you feel the new alignment is a "distracting eyesore" as you put it.

We welcome all types of feedback and criticism here at TFK, but a few bad words voicing your opinion on the situation without any reasoning to back it up is more complaining than critiquing.

Again, nothing is more important than a member's feedback. When legitimate concerns are presented with valid points to back them up, we create a dialogue that can result in resolution. But without any information, we are in the dark as to the pros and cons of our new setup.

I ask, just to make sure we are on the same page:

1) Did you prefer the "Reference Material" section all the way at the top?
2) Did you prefer the "Saltwater Section" first?
3) Do you not feel it appropriate to have a "Welcome" area?
4) Do you not feel an "Advanced Discussion" section was warranted?

If you have any questions you would like to ask us about the new layout, please feel free to.

Thanks again for coming to this section to voice your concerns.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Waka I can explain if you wish.

These are some of the starting problems with the websites layout. First and formost is the insane amount of wasted space. The entire front part of the forum is what every new person looks at. It either looks good or doesn't.

Right now the tables are so stretched out there are excessive spaces everywhere. That alone creates things like floating text and your eyes get tired wandering endlessly to try to find what you are looking for in a sea of clutter. It always bugged me but now it's worse with the addition of the new section dealing with species.

Clutter is the second problem and it has only gotten worse do to two changes on site. The first is the ads that have been plastered into some areas of open space on the sides. Unfortunately since admin sold this place to an ad agency that probably won't be fixed. Thus I use Adblock because it's simply too distracting.

The second is the addition of the species section that ends up adding unnecessary clutter. You need to trim things down and slim it up so it doesn't add onto an already over cluttered layout! I don't really want to hear "Well you should just hide it!" because that's not the point. If you want to start messing with the layout, you should trim and condense not build on to again...is a cluttered layout.

Other things are more of a preference. I do not like seeing the areas where we deal with photography and journals ending up all the way at the bottom of the layout. It makes it less likely to be found by new members and forces less attention on it.

I'd much prefer to see a condensed layout that focus's less on shoving as many things at once onto the screen as possible. Trim the tables and eliminate wasted space. Also pay attention to how logical the new sections are. Advanced Areas for example shouldn't exactly be breeding unless it's serious breeding and dealing with technical or advanced details. Advanced areas should deal with more technical discussions that go into things like actual science and not opinion or old man syndrome. Anything submitted as an Article needs to be just that. Just an article that has absolute as accurate information as possible. It should be something that is written by a person who is well versed in the area, not cut and paste from what was found on a wiki ;/

Also you will have to excuse my attitude. I'm still not too happy that the last few times I brought up serious discussion I didn't get a single SERIOUS response from the admin team. Of course the subjects of that are gone but still.
 

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Hey, Fox! Glad to see you popped back up. I tried to send you a message in chat, but you vanished - and found your PM's blocked after you left :(
Just wanted to hear your perspective, and what was bothering you. Thanks for bringing it. Don't worry, you've actually hit on a lot of issues that we're already dealing with and discussing.

The forum is in a state of flux right now, a lot of changes happening, and we're working so many different things at once. Hopefully we'll get it all polished up in a way that will make you - and everyone else - happy, but it's going to be a work in progress for a while. There's much to be done. Be patient with us :)

As for being grumpy - please don't be!!! Your input is welcome, as is any one else who wants to bring us their view. I'm really sorry that it seemed as if we weren't paying attention to you, last time around - but we were. We did! We have made a LOT of changes based on what you and others brought up to us here. Maybe it took a while for us to figure out the right way to go, but. . . we never ignored you. I can promise you that. Some issues are easier to solve than others. . . and harder to respond to with a solid answer.
 

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Thank you for bringing this to the right place. We are still moving things around and kind constructive criticism is always welcomed. Personally I don't see your table problem. can you elaborated a little more on which tables you are finding to be creating floating text and spaces, and how they are doing so.

Thanks :)


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Fox,

Thanks for taking the time to address this issue with us. I please ask that you go back to my previous post and answer these four questions, just so I can get a better handle on the situation:

1) Did you prefer the "Reference Material" section all the way at the top?
2) Did you prefer the "Saltwater Section" first?
3) Do you not feel it appropriate to have a "Welcome" area?
4) Do you not feel an "Advanced Discussion" section was warranted?
Now, I will take a look at what your concerns are:

These are some of the starting problems with the websites layout. First and formost is the insane amount of wasted space. The entire front part of the forum is what every new person looks at. It either looks good or doesn't.

Right now the tables are so stretched out there are excessive spaces everywhere. That alone creates things like floating text and your eyes get tired wandering endlessly to try to find what you are looking for in a sea of clutter. It always bugged me but now it's worse with the addition of the new section dealing with species.
The overall format of the forum has not changed. We have actually reduced the amount of forums on the home page. This is taking into consideration that the change happened well after we added the Reference Section. I will get into the Reference Material section later on in this post. Otherwise, we tried to streamline the forum by reducing the number of subforums under each main section (such as FW, SW and Other Aquatic) to about four max.


Clutter is the second problem and it has only gotten worse do to two changes on site. The first is the ads that have been plastered into some areas of open space on the sides. Unfortunately since admin sold this place to an ad agency that probably won't be fixed. Thus I use Adblock because it's simply too distracting.
I have been both a member and moderator here since 2008. I have worked closely with our old Admin Mike and he was always concerned on how to bring advertising into the site without making it too obvious. The problem we always encountered was that it is too difficult to find sponsors that will pay for advertising, yet don't want their product advertised. Our current owners are both concerned with the quality of the site and its revenue, and therefore advertising is required to make this ship run smoothly.

The other option is for our membership to "donate" so we could run ad-free. This is an idea we toyed with at one point, and the only people donating were moderators. It didn't work too well, nor did Admin feel it fair to ask members to donate, so the idea was nixed.

The second is the addition of the species section that ends up adding unnecessary clutter. You need to trim things down and slim it up so it doesn't add onto an already over cluttered layout! I don't really want to hear "Well you should just hide it!" because that's not the point. If you want to start messing with the layout, you should trim and condense not build on to again...is a cluttered layout.
Is this the second second problem? ;-)

I'm kidding. I promised I would address this to you.

Our original fish profiles: Tropical Fish Profiles were a custom add-on to our current software. This was created by Admin Mike and he had the secrets to its ins and outs. In order to not create a huge problem when this software is available for upgrade, we had to move these fish profiles to the main forum. While you personally might not think them to be useful, please take a second and look at the amount of views they have. I would feel safe saying that a few of our members find these useful, based on that. I also feel that they are a good way to direct traffic here from non-members, and maybe bolster our membership a little.

Other things are more of a preference. I do not like seeing the areas where we deal with photography and journals ending up all the way at the bottom of the layout. It makes it less likely to be found by new members and forces less attention on it.
This was done so that all the journals were in one place and hopefully we started to mingle across our FW/SW regions. Do you think it would be better somewhere else? If so, then where?

I'd much prefer to see a condensed layout that focus's less on shoving as many things at once onto the screen as possible. Trim the tables and eliminate wasted space. Also pay attention to how logical the new sections are. Advanced Areas for example shouldn't exactly be breeding unless it's serious breeding and dealing with technical or advanced details. Advanced areas should deal with more technical discussions that go into things like actual science and not opinion or old man syndrome. Anything submitted as an Article needs to be just that. Just an article that has absolute as accurate information as possible. It should be something that is written by a person who is well versed in the area, not cut and paste from what was found on a wiki ;/
Upon closer inspection, you will notice that the Fish Breeding area is not a topic in the "Advanced" area, but merely a subforum. We feel it is a more advanced topic, yet warrants its own subforum to attract specialists. All the other points you have addressed here we already have taken into account and are working on cleaning them up as much as possible. Remember that we are volunteers and have lives we also have to tend to...

Also you will have to excuse my attitude. I'm still not too happy that the last few times I brought up serious discussion I didn't get a single SERIOUS response from the admin team. Of course the subjects of that are gone but still.
I am not aware of this, or if I am I cannot recall it off the top of my head. Can you provide a link, or just ask the questions again?


Again, thanks for bringing these concerns to us, we do prefer criticism when ideas are presented with plausible solutions to current member dissatisfaction.

:) wake49
 
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