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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Greetings all. I have a 50 gallon curved front tank with 2 aquaclear 50g filters on there. One has charcoal the other does not. Temp stays at about 70 deg. Lighting is a 50/50 Actinic daylight bulb. Light and bubbler with 2 8" strips on each side of the tank with large bubbles run on a timer from noon to 9pm.

Have currently:
8 neon tetras (a few weeks ago had 10)
6 tetra skirts (2 white / albine, 2 zebra striped, 2 glo)
5 male guppies (seems to be enough of a school they do not fight)
4 oto's
1 bristlenose pleco
1 other pleco type catfish that looks like a blackish white and brown with a horizontal stripe4" oto forgot his type

Substrate is about 3 inches of gravel. Have an algae ball and a live plant. Try and change weekly to two weeks at 20% always vacuuming gravel.

Few weeks ago had a third glo tetra seem to have swim bladder problems. Started to corkscrew, swim sideways float to the top and such. He eventually died and got pulled pretty quickly. Subsequent research leads me to fear it was a parasite.

In past 2 weeks have had 2 neon tetras die for no apparent reason. Nobody in the tank seems to be nippers and they were pretty safe in their school.

Today found a very lethargic oto lying on his back until disturbed then swims around. And a glo tetro losing the roundness over his eyes, now looks more angular. This poor guy kept getting stuck on the filter. No apparent discoloration or fin nips.

Did a 15 gallon change and replaced carbon and put in a ammonia absorber. Vaccumed out the gravel real good as well.

Further inspection shows 2 neon tetras with 1 bright white spot each on flank, one near gill the other at fin joint. This is a bright white. The type of bright white that you can spot across the room with the actinic bulb. I also say on 2 of my glo danios (blue and purple, supposidly the bigger hardier ones of all the colors) that their stomoach areas are losing their color and turning pale white. No noted swimming problems to these four fish. My other 2 glo danios do not appear to have same issue.

I will be working on getting all 6 into my 2 gallon hospital tank. But that is way to small for all of them!

Is this parasite? Neon tetra disese? My imagination? Thanks for the help.

Jim

1. What is the size of your tank? 50 gallon

2. What are your water parameters? State the brand of test kit used. Brought to petco and asked them to test to be sure, nitrates tad high, everything else normal (am getting my own kit soon)

3. Is your aquarium set up freshwater or brackish water? freshwater

4. How long the aquarium has been set up? 9 months

5. What fish do you have? How many are in your tank? How big are they? How long have you had them? fish as above, skirt tetras 8-9 months, guppies 4-5 months, danios 6-7 months, neons 3-4 months, otos 4-5 months, unknown pleco 4 months, bristlenose 3 months, neon tetras 2-3 months

6. Were the fish placed under quarantine period (minus the first batch from the point wherein the tank is ready to accommodate the inhabitants)? no, only the one tank except for a hospital tank at 2 gallons

7. What temperature is the tank water currently? 70

8. Are there live plants in the aquarium? yes

9. What filter are you using? State brand, maintenance routine and power capacity. 2 auqaclear 50 gallon filters. both with sponge cleaned weekly, one with charcoal, both with biomax tablets. Just put in new sponges new charcoal and ammonia remover to be on safe side to one without charcoal. These replaced per manufactorer

10. Any other equipment used (aside from heater and filter which are two very important components of the tank)? bubbler

11. Does your aquarium receive natural sunlight at any given part of the day? What is your lighting schedule (assuming you do not rely on sunlight for our viewing pleasure)? light on noon to 9 pm, some daylight when curtains open in living room same time frame. plenty of algae growth

12. When did you perform your last water change and how much water was changed? How often do you change your water? Do you vacuum the substrate? today, 15 gallon, 1-2 weeks, yes

13. What foods do you provide your fish? What is the feeding schedule? tropical fish flake, once a day at night

14. What unusual signs have you observed in your fish? see post

15. Have you treated your fish ahead of diagnosis? If so, what treatments did you use? State your reasons for planning ahead of proper diagnosis. no
 

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Greetings all. I have a 50 gallon curved front tank with 2 aquaclear 50g filters on there. One has charcoal the other does not. Temp stays at about 70 deg. Lighting is a 50/50 Actinic daylight bulb. Light and bubbler with 2 8" strips on each side of the tank with large bubbles run on a timer from noon to 9pm.

Have currently:
8 neon tetras (a few weeks ago had 10)
6 tetra skirts (2 white / albine, 2 zebra striped, 2 glo)
5 male guppies (seems to be enough of a school they do not fight)
4 oto's
1 bristlenose pleco
1 other pleco type catfish that looks like a blackish white and brown with a horizontal stripe4" oto forgot his type

Substrate is about 3 inches of gravel. Have an algae ball and a live plant. Try and change weekly to two weeks at 20% always vacuuming gravel.

Few weeks ago had a third glo tetra seem to have swim bladder problems. Started to corkscrew, swim sideways float to the top and such. He eventually died and got pulled pretty quickly. Subsequent research leads me to fear it was a parasite.

In past 2 weeks have had 2 neon tetras die for no apparent reason. Nobody in the tank seems to be nippers and they were pretty safe in their school.

Today found a very lethargic oto lying on his back until disturbed then swims around. And a glo tetro losing the roundness over his eyes, now looks more angular. This poor guy kept getting stuck on the filter. No apparent discoloration or fin nips.

Did a 15 gallon change and replaced carbon and put in a ammonia absorber. Vaccumed out the gravel real good as well.

Further inspection shows 2 neon tetras with 1 bright white spot each on flank, one near gill the other at fin joint. This is a bright white. The type of bright white that you can spot across the room with the actinic bulb. I also say on 2 of my glo danios (blue and purple, supposidly the bigger hardier ones of all the colors) that their stomoach areas are losing their color and turning pale white. No noted swimming problems to these four fish. My other 2 glo danios do not appear to have same issue.

I will be working on getting all 6 into my 2 gallon hospital tank. But that is way to small for all of them!

Is this parasite? Neon tetra disese? My imagination? Thanks for the help.

Jim

1. What is the size of your tank? 50 gallon

2. What are your water parameters? State the brand of test kit used. Brought to petco and asked them to test to be sure, nitrates tad high, everything else normal (am getting my own kit soon)

3. Is your aquarium set up freshwater or brackish water? freshwater

4. How long the aquarium has been set up? 9 months

5. What fish do you have? How many are in your tank? How big are they? How long have you had them? fish as above, skirt tetras 8-9 months, guppies 4-5 months, danios 6-7 months, neons 3-4 months, otos 4-5 months, unknown pleco 4 months, bristlenose 3 months, neon tetras 2-3 months

6. Were the fish placed under quarantine period (minus the first batch from the point wherein the tank is ready to accommodate the inhabitants)? no, only the one tank except for a hospital tank at 2 gallons

7. What temperature is the tank water currently? 70

8. Are there live plants in the aquarium? yes

9. What filter are you using? State brand, maintenance routine and power capacity. 2 auqaclear 50 gallon filters. both with sponge cleaned weekly, one with charcoal, both with biomax tablets. Just put in new sponges new charcoal and ammonia remover to be on safe side to one without charcoal. These replaced per manufactorer

10. Any other equipment used (aside from heater and filter which are two very important components of the tank)? bubbler

11. Does your aquarium receive natural sunlight at any given part of the day? What is your lighting schedule (assuming you do not rely on sunlight for our viewing pleasure)? light on noon to 9 pm, some daylight when curtains open in living room same time frame. plenty of algae growth

12. When did you perform your last water change and how much water was changed? How often do you change your water? Do you vacuum the substrate? today, 15 gallon, 1-2 weeks, yes

13. What foods do you provide your fish? What is the feeding schedule? tropical fish flake, once a day at night

14. What unusual signs have you observed in your fish? see post

15. Have you treated your fish ahead of diagnosis? If so, what treatments did you use? State your reasons for planning ahead of proper diagnosis. no

Welcome to the forum! Sorry no one posted yet to help. Difficult when these things happen. :-? Your tank sounds like it's cycled, but something appears to have caused stress in your tank. The spots sound like ich possibly, which is easily treated with something like "Quick cure" (follow directions for tetras) and increasing temp. Your tank temp at 70 is too low. I'd raise it slowly to about 78 and keep it there. To treat for ich, you can raise your temp up to 85 as long as the fish don't show signs of stress. I'm guessing the temp of 70 may be the problem, but I could be wrong.

You should not replace all your filter media with water changes, in case you are doing that. Media hold very benefical bacteria.

You should not have nitrate readings over 20ppm. I keep mine around 5-10ppm. Get a liquid API test kit asap. I would not trust Petsmarts tests, as they use strips which are not reliable. Make sure you don't have Nitrites, which are very deadly. If you have nitrates, you shouldn't be getting nitrite readings, unless your bacteria level can't keep up with the waste/bioload. I hope that helps a little. How are things going now?
 

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85 will not kill ich at all... 87 is the lowest temp for any control of the parasite... anything less just speeds up the life cycle and infection. ive also yet to come across anything about striops being more inaccurate then liquids. seems to come down to user perception more then anything
The temp doesn't kill the parasite, it just speeds up their life cycle and allows the medication or salt (many people use this, but since you have a plant, I didn't mention it) to work. Ich can only be killed when it's in its free swimming stage, and not while it is hosting the fish.
 

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Heat alone cures ich, every time - no need for salt or meds or anything else. It kills the parasite by interfering with its life cycle.

86 is the magic number - it's what is most commonly quoted, and will do the job the vast majority of the time. MM - 87 is not the lowest. We have gone over this before. its only one degree, i know, but inaccurate is inaccurate. If you want to keep saying that, then say 87 is the lowest temp that YOU use.

However, some strains are more resistant to heat than others - occasionally you hear about a case where it does not work. Happened to me one time, so I kicked the temp up to 89 and it was gone. From that point on I just go right to 88. I give all new fish a heat treatment while in quarantine.

Anyway, 85 may work as well, but the lower you go with the temp, the more likely it is not to work. The treatment time is 2 weeks. The spots should be gone after about 5 days, but maintain the temp. I don't know if its ACTUALLY needed, to maintain the temp for the full two weeks, but it's easy enough to do, and I've not found a reason to test it. Some people are concerned about the effect on their fish, but I have administered the treatment to close to 50 species, from tropicals to cold water to ancient fish, without a problem.


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Heat alone cures ich, every time - no need for salt or meds or anything else. It kills the parasite by interfering with its life cycle.

86 is the magic number - it's what is most commonly quoted, and will do the job the vast majority of the time. MM - 87 is not the lowest. We have gone over this before. its only one degree, i know, but inaccurate is inaccurate. If you want to keep saying that, then say 87 is the lowest temp that YOU use.

However, some strains are more resistant to heat than others - occasionally you hear about a case where it does not work. Happened to me one time, so I kicked the temp up to 89 and it was gone. From that point on I just go right to 88. I give all new fish a heat treatment while in quarantine.

Anyway, 85 may work as well, but the lower you go with the temp, the more likely it is not to work. The treatment time is 2 weeks. The spots should be gone after about 5 days, but maintain the temp. I don't know if its ACTUALLY needed, to maintain the temp for the full two weeks, but it's easy enough to do, and I've not found a reason to test it. Some people are concerned about the effect on their fish, but I have administered the treatment to close to 50 species, from tropicals to cold water to ancient fish, without a problem.




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agreed, however 87 is not inaccurate as there have been setting of 87 on some heaters ive used in the past. the digital thermo that was also used read below 87.. sometimes it would sit at 86 sometimes lower then that. the ich did not go away but got worse in those tanks. personal experience is personal experience. some books will say 85 some will say 91, in MY personal experience 87 seems to be the magic number anything less just makes things worse not better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Wow a whole bunch of replies all of a sudden!

Quick updates, I moved the ones that worried me to my 2.5 gallon tank. I used fresh water but the sponge and charcoal from my recent change. When moving them, the oto and glo skirt tetra were pretty lifeless so I euthanized them to be on the safe side.

I raised the temp to 88 using my imersible 300w heater. I have the gauge on the heater as well as a mercury thermometer on the opposite side of the tank. I do not have a heater for the 2.5 gallon tank. But the water is at room temp of 70. All four fish in the 2.5 gallon are very active.

I was also initially thinking about ick but I am not to sure about that. Here are some pictures I took:



Here is a good picture of the glo danio, he should be all blue. I am worried about the discoloration on his belly. My purple danio is having the same but his picture didn't come out as well. And nope I do not have gravel in this tank. Not supposed to be used long term!



This one is a very blurry neon tetra. The white spot is what concerned me. I realize it is hard to tell but I cannot really capture it on camera in the 2.5 since the actinic bulb is what made it stand out.

Before I put the 4 concerning ones back in the main tank, I want to make sure it is actually something that I don't have to quarantine for.
 

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agreed, however 87 is not inaccurate as there have been setting of 87 on some heaters ive used in the past. the digital thermo that was also used read below 87.. sometimes it would sit at 86 sometimes lower then that. the ich did not go away but got worse in those tanks. personal experience is personal experience. some books will say 85 some will say 91, in MY personal experience 87 seems to be the magic number anything less just makes things worse not better.
The inaccuracy is saying that anything less than 87 does not work, because lower temps DO work. It may not have worked for YOU, but as I explained not every strain is the same. I can't even begin to count the number of times people reported success at 86. Granted we are talking about a 1 degree difference, but it's all in the wording my friend. There isn't anything anyone can say if you say "in my experience 87 is required".... But to say " 87 is the lowest temp for any control of the parasite" is a statement of fact, which is in fact incorrect.

While we are on the subject, one ting to keep in mind is that heater temp settings are not always accurate, as was mentioned. Setting it to a specific temp may or may not get it there, so until you know how accurate your heater is at that higher temp, it is best to raise the temp cautiously.
 

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Jim, thanks for the pics, but they are too large to see anything. I'm not sure if that has an influence on the blurriness or not. If the spot in the last picture that you are referring to is on the side of the belly there, then that is most certainly not ich.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·




I tried to get the spots better on the neons but I am not seeing them now under direct flashlight. Still worried about the spots though. These were bright white spots as if I took a pin with white paint on it and put it there.
 

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If there are ich strands that are more heat resistant, I'd rather use medication than taking the risk of just using heat to cure ich. I lost 90% of my stock treating ich with just heat! It didn't get knocked out until I started medicating with Kordon Rid-Ich+

You have 4 fish in a 2.5 gallon? That's overstocked. I suggest only stocking 1 fish in the 2.5 gallon.
 

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I lost 90% of my stock treating ich with just heat!
Sounds like there was something else wrong with them. You're experience is by far the exception.

Anyone who wants to know more about treating ich with heat can do a simple google search, and read the countless threads on dozens of forums on the matter. There are more successes than one can count.


Jim, if it looks like the fish has grains of salt on it, then it is ich. Anything else, is not ich, and raising the temp can be disastrous. If you can get a clearer picture, it would help immensely. In the first picture, I am pretty certain that there is no ich. It's clear enough to tell.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
You have 4 fish in a 2.5 gallon? That's overstocked. I suggest only stocking 1 fish in the 2.5 gallon.
The 4 fish are the sick ones. I have a 50 gallon and a 2.5 gallon. The 4 in the 2.5 are the ones I worried were sick. I left the healthy ones in the 50 gallon.


They do not have anything that looks like ich type salt strands. I am not seeing the white spots at this point so I may put them back in the main tank. I tried shining a ultraviolet flashlight on them to see if it had the same properties as the actinic and did not see anything. Although the glo fish looked quite interesting!

Any thoughts on the discoloration on the danios? My reading on neon tetra disease showed that discoloration of the abdomen. Below is from fishchannel.com

At very low levels of infection there may be no symptoms visible at all, and it is usually the case that the more obvious symptoms of neon tetra disease are only apparent on heavily infected aquarium fish a few days away from death. Infected aquarium fish will often spend less time with their schoolmates than normal, typically hiding away under aquarium plants and showing no interest in fish food. The aquarium fish’s colors fade, and sometimes gray or white patches on the flanks become apparent. In advanced cases the aquarium fish may have trouble swimming, and the fish may develop odd swellings or contortions indicative of damage to the musculature. Usually the aquarium fish dies within two or three days of the first symptoms of neon tetra disease becoming apparent.

I kinda want to leave them in isolation for a week to see what happens.
 

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In my experience, neon tetra disease kills pretty quickly once symptoms are exhibited. It's a terrible thing to have to deal with.

Just about all fish are susceptible to it - it is spread by consumption, whether a fish is eating an infected dead fish, or nipping an infected live fish. If you think it might be NTD, then separating the fish is the right thing to do.

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No Jaysee, it was just ich. I'm not having any issues now that the ich is gone.

If there is just 1 small spot, it sounds like it could be fungus. I agree that we need clearer pictures.
 

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As far as you could see. Losing 90% of your stock is a freak occurrence, which is indicative of an underlying issue.


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Discussion Starter · #18 ·






Here are two videos. The first one is the ones I put into a quarantine. The second one is a neon in the main tank that is having that same color fading on his left flank as the danios. Turn your volume down, my kid wanted more cherios and he got his point across! At 13 seconds you can see the spot on the neon at its clearest. (video1)

MAH00875 - YouTube

MAH00876 - YouTube
 

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Not ich on the neons, and not NTD on them either. I didn't see anything wrong with the fish in the second video.

As for the glofish, it was tough to tell because of how much it moved around. What else is in that tank, besides the neons and the danio? Another danio? I'm not sure what's up with it's side....
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Yes, it is another danio in there. It also has some discoloration but not as much.

Total of 2 neons with those spots and 2 danios in the tank.

This all came about after I lost 2 neons, 1 tetra skirt and 1 oto in less than 2 weeks. The first 2 neons I did not look into things that closely until the skirt and oto started dying at same time.

Glad to see it is not NTD, that had me worried.

Didn't think was ick but nice to have second opinion.

Thanks
 
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