Tropical Fish Keeping banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Evening all,

I thought I had had things situated. I have a 50 gallon planted aquarium. I want to keep angels. I have had a few deaths. I know that they are sensitive to begin with and I drip acclimate all new fish to my tank. I had been testing pH at a constant 7. Tonight I found out that my pH is at 7.6 and I am confused as to why when my tap is 6.8. Any insights?

3 angels
3 albino corys
4 otocinclus

Currently not dosing with any frets or anything. Seachem root tabs installed but probably need to be replaced in the near future.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
Did you scape with any rocks? Did you use inert gravel or sand? How long has your tank been running for?

You state you have had a few deaths. Are you attributing the deaths to the seemingly climbing ph, or is this just a question?

I wouldn't think a ph of 7.6 would cause deaths, even with slightly acidic loving fish, unless it happened drastically. Fish will usually adapt to a higher ph, and my angels (all of them) breed relentlessly in waters between 7.2-7.6. Honestly though, I would start testing your kh at least and gh, and focus less on your ph reading. These will buffer your water and stabilize your ph (decide where your ph will sit) If you have carbonates (kh) in your water, from the tap source, or leaching from rocks or gravel/ornaments, your ph will climb regardless of what it initially tests as. I was always told to test my tap water initially in a bucket, and then in 24 hours, and see if there is a change. This will help tell you if you have a high kh from the tap without buying a test kit, but I still advise testiing kh and actually hardly test ph at all anymore.

A little more info is needed, like the length of time your tank was running when you were testing a ph of 7, if you tested a ph of 7 after you added fish, how often you do w/c s, decorations.............

And btw, as far as I can think of, any negative water conditions would most likely cause your ph to drop.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,676 Posts
Evening all,

I thought I had had things situated. I have a 50 gallon planted aquarium. I want to keep angels. I have had a few deaths. I know that they are sensitive to begin with and I drip acclimate all new fish to my tank. I had been testing pH at a constant 7. Tonight I found out that my pH is at 7.6 and I am confused as to why when my tap is 6.8. Any insights?

3 angels
3 albino corys
4 otocinclus

Currently not dosing with any frets or anything. Seachem root tabs installed but probably need to be replaced in the near future.

there is a highly technical term for planted tanks having high ph. 7.6 could be the limit of the test kit. Try the high range test kit.

that techical term is





wait





for





it



normal

:lol:

Plants consume carbon dioxide which raises the pH. So the tank becomes a net consumer of co2 and producer of oxygen each 24 hour period.

I would measure pH just before light out just to be sure though.

But a high pH cause by low carbon dioxide in hardly detrimental to any fish. In fact it is extremely healthy.


my .02
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
Again, more info, are you adding pressurized co2, maybe your filter is off gassing your co2 (adding oxygen by disturbing the water surface)

The plants consume co2 during the day (when the lights are on) and oxygen at night (when the lights are off) so it would be normal for your ph to be high in the evening, when your lights go out and lower in the morning before your lights come on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Did you scape with any rocks? Did you use inert gravel or sand?
I have Flourite Dark.

How long has your tank been running for?
Since the end of January 2012

You state you have had a few deaths. Are you attributing the deaths to the seemingly climbing ph, or is this just a question?
I know that angels prefer lower pH. I know it's not the only factor.

I wouldn't think a ph of 7.6 would cause deaths, even with slightly acidic loving fish, unless it happened drastically. Fish will usually adapt to a higher ph, and my angels (all of them) breed relentlessly in waters between 7.2-7.6. Honestly though, I would start testing your kh at least and gh, and focus less on your ph reading. These will buffer your water and stabilize your ph (decide where your ph will sit) If you have carbonates (kh) in your water, from the tap source, or leaching from rocks or gravel/ornaments, your ph will climb regardless of what it initially tests as. I was always told to test my tap water initially in a bucket, and then in 24 hours, and see if there is a change. This will help tell you if you have a high kh from the tap without buying a test kit, but I still advise testiing kh and actually hardly test ph at all anymore.
I was going to get a gH and kH test kit but the store was closed when I got to it yesterday. I'll try the bucket thing.

A little more info is needed, like the length of time your tank was running when you were testing a ph of 7, if you tested a ph of 7 after you added fish, how often you do w/c s, decorations.............

And btw, as far as I can think of, any negative water conditions would most likely cause your ph to drop.
I never really tested pH so much as I would the ammonia, nitrIte and nitrate so I can't say how long I was at 7.

I do get my fish from PetSmart (not preferable) but there are no other stores in my area to get them. The place I wish I could go back to (and my favorite place) is 45-60 minutes away. I'm taking into account that angels are more sensitive. I drip acclimate all fish.

I am not adding co2. I have an Aquaclear 300 filter (I think it's call the 70 now).

No decorations. All plants.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
Okay, I'm out of questions........nothing you mentioned seems to be a cause of your rising ph phenomenon, flourite is neutral, your tank is probably not going through any kind of cycle..........I can only see that your tap water might rise anyway (in the bucket) or your aquaclear is helping to raise the ph by rustling the water's surface. Or simply what bealsbob suggested, that your ph is 7.6 at the end of the photoperiod, and 7.0ish before it starts.

For my aquaclears, I add a piece of plastic to the output to act as an extension to release the water gently into the tank instead of pouring in. I do this because I want to keep all the co2 I have for the plants. I don't add it either-yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Honestly though, I would start testing your kh at least and gh, and focus less on your ph reading. These will buffer your water and stabilize your ph (decide where your ph will sit) If you have carbonates (kh) in your water, from the tap source, or leaching from rocks or gravel/ornaments, your ph will climb regardless of what it initially tests as. I was always told to test my tap water initially in a bucket, and then in 24 hours, and see if there is a change. This will help tell you if you have a high kh from the tap without buying a test kit, but I still advise testiing kh and actually hardly test ph at all anymore.
Wow! Life has been busy. pH tested out of tap at 6.7 and after standing at least 24 hours at 7.6. I think I am attributing deaths to low quality standards of PetSmart. I found out that they float bags and dump fish into the tanks. Still I went back for more and got 3 new Angels on 1-5-13 and only one had passed in 2 weeks. Weather permitting I will be near my favorite Aquarium store on Wednesday where I plan to get a black angel. They are my favorite and I never had any issues with their livestock.

One puzzle is that I have one Angel who is swimming around and eat but is keeping it's tail and top fins clamped up and hanging out in the back corner. The one that passed yesterday was doing the same thing except was not swimming around.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
840 Posts
The behaviour you describe sounds like symptoms of nitrate poisoning. Do you perform regular water changes?
I have an angelfish tank and they don't seem to be very picky about ph ( I'm at 8.2) but very sensitive to nitrate. if I delay my water change more than a couple days, they begin to exhibit the behaviour you describe- closed fins, resting on the bottom or drifting near the surface.
Use seachem Prime and don't skimp on the water changes. I change 25% per week... more when the fish start acting weird.
And yeah..I've gotten bad fish from petcomart...
Good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
Wow! Life has been busy. pH tested out of tap at 6.7 and after standing at least 24 hours at 7.6.
Sorry to pipe in again, I had to re-read the thread, but right there, you say your tap water wants to settle at 7.6, even though it initially tests 6.7 out of the tap. This answers your PH question. You likely have a high enough KH in your tap water, or high concentration of Co2 in your tap water.

Nothing wrong with that, as rskylight04 pointed out, the fish will usually adapt to a higher than 'in the wild' PH.

Although, one thing I would like to bring to your attention, is ph swing. Water should not change more than .02 degrees in one day (typically). This can be stressful for fish too.

So I suggest you look into off-gassing your water from the tap before w/c s. This is fairly easy, depending on what method you choose for water changes.

You have a 50g tank. So you would change ~12.5g of water per week. I don't know if a holding container (rubbermaid bin or whatever) is included in your w/c regimen, but if it is, I think running your water ahead of time (24 hours) would be a good idea, to let your water 'age', and let it off-gas. This will mean that the water you add to your tank during a water change will be the same ph (or close to) as the water without subjecting your fish to the change.

To reheat your water, I just use a pot (used for aquarium water only) and heat up a portion on the stove, than pour it back in and mix, or if you have a spare heater, use that. An air stone can help it to off-gas quicker, although I don't know how much quicker.

If you have the space, it's a practice I do also, healthier for the fish, and 12.5 isn't a crazy amount of water to have sitting around for a day. I say that because I have 7 tanks, (one is 120g and one is 90g) and age all my water.

If you research aging your aquarium water, you might see that an old method for removing chlorine form your tap water is to let it age, and let the chlorine evaporate. THIS IS NOT WHY I DO THIS!!!! It is strictly to let the o2 and Co2 exchange and settle. I am with rsskylight04, always use Prime right before adding your water.

If you do have high nitrates, maybe changing a bit more water for a while might get them down, then sticking to a weekly 25% w/c, or adding floating plants (frogbit) or fast growing water-column feeding pants (anacharis, brazilian pennywort) can help a lot too in keeping the nitrates at a more manageable level.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
729 Posts
angel craze, ... that's exactly what i do with my tank
i've got a large bucket full of water and an air stone to keep it agitated (like the aquarium)

i did it for chlorine worries, but everything else you mentioned sounds great too :)

it used to sit on the floor, then the baby could walk, and loved playing in the water :( now it's on the table so he's not creating puddles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
Flear,

Agreed, great for your tank, awesome to see that others are doing this too.

I could get into the reasons why letting the water sit for 24 hours for the purpose to remove chlorine isn't effective 'now-a days', but I am afraid this will start a new thread. Quickly-The reason is chloramine is being used by so many municipalities. Chloramine is a bond of chlorine and ammonia, look it up......the chlorine will evaporate and set the ammonia free. Just a heads up on why using Prime is a good idea also. Didn't want to steer anyone in the wrong direction.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Unfortunately, space does not allow me to keep water aging though it sound like a great idea. I am currently using an Aqueon siphon similar to a Python. I seem to be going good now. I think I was more nervous than anything and it looks like that I was just getting highly stressed fish. Hopefully I'll be good for a while.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
You must treat your water with a water conditioner in a bucket before placing it in your tank? Can you do smaller water changes more often, like 6.25 gallons twice a week? It'll also cut down on the shock or dilute the PH change.
 

·
Reference Team
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
Chloramine will break down eventually, but not easily and not just by aging. That's why Prime, Amquel, API, and others use sodium thiosulfate to break the chlorine/ ammonia bond. The chlorine is bound until it evaporates, the ammonia is oxidized by bacteria and plants, or bound by other chemicals which render it harmless.

Angelcraze. This is the first I've been apprised that a pH swing of >0.02 degrees (points?) can be harmful. This is a mighty small swing and is easily exceeded in the course of water changes and routine maintenance. I've always been told that a pH swing of up to half a point is not bad for healthy livestock. Althugh I'm sure it depends on the species and on the individual.

I certainly agree with more frequent, smaller water changes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,676 Posts
I simply age my tap water in tank for a week with plants.

then just replace water the evaporates.

I don't add fish during that first week, and have never had any signs of stress like slow moving or heavy breathing etc etc.

And have done this is several cities around the US including where I am now. My current water authority like most does in fact use chlorimine.

And never use a dechlor, ammonia lock, prime or any other chemical.


my .02
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
Angelcraze. This is the first I've been apprised that a pH swing of >0.02 degrees (points?) can be harmful. This is a mighty small swing and is easily exceeded in the course of water changes and routine maintenance. I've always been told that a pH swing of up to half a point is not bad for healthy livestock. Althugh I'm sure it depends on the species and on the individual.
Oops, you are right, it should have been 0.2. PH will change by .02 or more in 24hrs due to plants photosynthesizing alone, especially if pressurized Co2 is added. I often write late, when I am tired, I do not have any fish or aquatic anything that are that sensitive, LOL, sorry everyone and thanks for being polite in regards to my error.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,676 Posts
...

Angelcraze. This is the first I've been apprised that a pH swing of >0.02 degrees (points?) can be harmful. This is a mighty small swing and is easily exceeded in the course of water changes and routine maintenance. I've always been told that a pH swing of up to half a point is not bad for healthy livestock. Althugh I'm sure it depends on the species and on the individual.


...

.

Depends on why the pH is dropping. I had a marine tank that varied from 8.4-8.8 just before lights out and was 7.9 or less just before lights on. fish and corals did just fine.

(The nightly drop decreased when I dosed baking soda and got kH up to 8 degrees.)

As I have stated before if the only reason the pH gets high during lights on is due to plant action all that means is that the CO2 is being consumed. Which is hardly hareful to any livestock.


my .02
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top