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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hey all,

So the past 2 years, my pH in both fish tanks have been around 7.6-7.8. (10g and 38g)

And I just checked it in my 38g (getting fish tmrw) and it's at 8?! How does it jump that much?

What should I do? Will it have an effect on gourami and cardinals? (From what I read is that if you buy them locally (LFS) they'll be fine)
 

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"When" you take your readings can make a difference in your numbers with a planted tank. Try testing first thing before the light comes on and then about 5 hours after the lights have been on.
 

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My bad. Should have noticed. I see you are using a bubbler also. My thought about timing of testing had to do with CO2. I could be wrong, but with no plants and the bubbler, it doesn't seem like there should be a significant change in the amount of CO2 throughout the day. The tank is currently empty, right ? Maybe try the different test timing just for the heck of it. Sorry, that's all I have.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I just tested the tap water's pH and it was right about 7.6/7.7.

I also tested the tank itself after a water change, with the high range pH and regular pH.
Between them I'd say the pH is higher than 7.6 but lower than 7.8.

So I have no idea what would cause a pH change. I do have a chipped aquarium plant (the weight on the bottom) in there, but I don't think that would cause a pH jump like that. I'm thinking it was a one time thing...
 

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I'll just point out a couple of things.

First, the pH of your tap water can change. This is due to your water source. Some cities have more than one source and depending where they get the water it might fluctuate. Some seasonal changes due to spring rain runoffs and such is also possible.

Second, when testing tap water make sure you outgas the CO2. Water running through pipes can collect CO2 and this will add carbonic acid which obviously lowers the pH. Shaking a small jar of tap water very vigorously for a couple minutes should outgas any CO2; then do the pH test.

This is not necessary for tank water as CO2 does outgas over about 24 hours anyway, as far as the tap issue goes. Obviously CO2 is being regularly and continually produced in an aquarium by respiration of fish, bacteria, plants (if present) but even more by the breakdown of organics. So there can be variance during the day from all this, even without plants. It is always advisable to test pH the same time every day, to get a more consistent and accurate reading.

You mentioned cardinals and gourami. While pH is important, the GH is even more important, especially for cardinals which come from very soft water. Do you know the GH (and KH or Alkalinity) of the tap water? This you can get from the supply folks, on their website probably.

Byron.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
GH is water hardness correct? The website for my area says (In a few ways):

-7.5 grains per gallon with a range of 6.7 to 8.5 grains per gallon
-92 milligrams per liter (mg/L)


I decided to go with neons because from my research they are more suited to a slightly larger range of water quality. However the stress from the move took two of them. The others are eating and seem to be doing well.
 

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GH is water hardness correct? The website for my area says (In a few ways):

-7.5 grains per gallon with a range of 6.7 to 8.5 grains per gallon
-92 milligrams per liter (mg/L)


I decided to go with neons because from my research they are more suited to a slightly larger range of water quality. However the stress from the move took two of them. The others are eating and seem to be doing well.
Grains per gallon is roughly the swame as degrees GH, so 7.5 gpg would be about 7.5 dGH. Subjectively this is what we would term moderately hard. Most soft water fish will probably be OK in this, at least the tank-raised ones (like neons).
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well, seems like something is wrong. Since we got them last night, 2 have died. There is now a third one displaying the same issue...floating, but still swimming a bit. Based on the other two, this one will die within the hour. What is going on? My ammonia is at 0, so is nitrite. Nitrate is lower than 5ppm. pH is around 7.8 now. Temp is 80F. And I already stated my GH...so what should I do?
 

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Well, seems like something is wrong. Since we got them last night, 2 have died. There is now a third one displaying the same issue...floating, but still swimming a bit. Based on the other two, this one will die within the hour. What is going on? My ammonia is at 0, so is nitrite. Nitrate is lower than 5ppm. pH is around 7.8 now. Temp is 80F. And I already stated my GH...so what should I do?
Temp at 80F is very warm for neons, much too warm. Is this due to a heat wave, or is the tank heater set for 80F? [I wouldn't expect this to kill them so quickly, but it is stressful and that won't help.]

Second issue, how did you acclimate them?

Third, what tank size, and what other fish are in the tank?

Byron.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
No other fish. Tank is 38g. I'll reduce the temperature. I acclimated them by floating the bag for 20min and then added a bit of tank water. I kept doing this for about 45min. After that, I drained the LFS water and added the tetras to the tank.
 

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No other fish. Tank is 38g. I'll reduce the temperature. I acclimated them by floating the bag for 20min and then added a bit of tank water. I kept doing this for about 45min. After that, I drained the LFS water and added the tetras to the tank.
Lower the temperature to no higher than 77F; depending upon what other fish you may be intending and their temp needs, down to 75F would be fine for the neons.

Acclimatization sounds OK. I suppose there is no way to assess if the store water was significantly different from your tank water with respect to GH and pH?

It is always possible the fish are not healthy, this does happen. Or they can be severely injured during netting in the store, or severely stressed during transport, and all this stress causes internal problems that some fish just can't overcome.

Byron.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
There is now a 5th fish dying. He had a gasping issue, and his gill is swollen. The guy at the LFS (knowledgeable btw) thought it might be gill flukes, but this is the only tetra with this gill issue. The other 3 that died didn't have it. If it is flukes, how would I kill them off? I do have Prazi Pro and aq salt.

EDIT: That's 5 dead now. I don't see any others with any symptoms...
 

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There is now a 5th fish dying. He had a gasping issue, and his gill is swollen. The guy at the LFS (knowledgeable btw) thought it might be gill flukes, but this is the only tetra with this gill issue. The other 3 that died didn't have it. If it is flukes, how would I kill them off? I do have Prazi Pro and aq salt.

EDIT: That's 5 dead now. I don't see any others with any symptoms...
Gill flukes symptoms include flashing (the fish scraping the gill region on plant leaves, wood, substrate), much increased respiration, extended gill covers so you can clearly see the gills and they will be bright red, and somtimes hanging at the surface gasping though this is in my experience not frequent unless things are very bad.

Prazipro is best for this, follow directions. Considering these are characins, don't use salt which is highly stressful at any level even close to being effective against parasites.

Do the fish in the store have this? It is highly unlikely they would contract it in your tank if there are no other fish, so they must have brought it with them.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I didn't see any other store fish with this issue, however it looks like another one of my tetras is gasping. No inflamed gill though.

I actually went to the LFS that I bought them from, and the entire tank had a "DONT SELL" label on it. The guy there said call later and ask for the guy who knows...so I will do that...
 

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I didn't see any other store fish with this issue, however it looks like another one of my tetras is gasping. No inflamed gill though.

I actually went to the LFS that I bought them from, and the entire tank had a "DONT SELL" label on it. The guy there said call later and ask for the guy who knows...so I will do that...
That is good. If it is something with the fish and the store knows it, they should be willing to replaced your fish as it cannot be your fault.

Dumping any medication into a tank with fish is risky; if it is not needed for the issue, it will make things worse. So if the store figures out the problem and can suggest a remedy, better than second guessing. Gasping or rapid respiration can be indicative of so many things.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
They took back the fish, as they offered store credit. I did a large WC...and I'm starting the fish selection process again...*exasperated sigh* any suggestions? NO. TETRAS. haha
 

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They took back the fish, as they offered store credit. I did a large WC...and I'm starting the fish selection process again...*exasperated sigh* any suggestions? NO. TETRAS. haha
Browse the new profile section. With your parameters you have plenty of options.
 
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