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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone, :)
Im a beginner...I am a new owner of 20 gal freshwater aquarium. I actually bought 1st week of last September. I did not cycle the tank as it should be, as I am not aware until just recently, but i did put water conditioner and put the filter working for 3 days before I finally decided to get goldfish and at the same time 2 pleco catfish. Then I put good bacteria solution the same day. I am just wondering if this is just a right amount of fish or is too much. So far they get on very well, actually I notice that the goldfish is more aggressive than the pleco coz I caught them nipping sometimes on the catfish. But the plecos just run away or turn about against the goldfish to attack but the gold fish runaway also, sometimes one of the pleco tries to attach to the gold fish but they don't succeed. This habit stops since I increase the feeding, many says to feed them one a day but I ending up feeding them at least 3 to 5 times a day in small bits. I also have 1 live plant togther with plastic plants. I am aware of the wastes or ammonia but I change the water atleast 20% every week. Do you think in the furure I would need a bigger tank for them. My brother is counting the days and betting that one of them will float oneday but so far are very well and good. I think my fish are happy at the moment. I have:
3 shubunkin gold fish
2 fantail goldfish
1 blackmoor goldfish
2 pleco
I bought them all the same size, about 1 1/2 inch
Now the goldfish seems grows bigger especially the blackmoor.
I kind of thinking to get another 1 pearlscale gold fish. Do you think this is wise? for 20 gal tank. Pls. need advise :D


 

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Hi and welcome aboard, Swing.:wave:

With 6 fancy goldfish and 2 plecs overall, both are big pooping machines. 20 gallons is far too small for all 8 big poopers. I'd upgrade the whole tank to 4 ft with lots of filtration(not overfiltration).

As far as I can see, dechlorinators should be the only chemicals added. I don't see how the bacteria solution and water conditioners work well. Dechlorinators will help eliminate chlorine and chloramine which are both harmful to the fish.

Pls buy test kits and test the following water parameters: ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and pH.
Take note that ammonia and nitrites should be zero. Higher than that will definitely cause you problems. As for nitrates, make sure it is 40 and below. Higher than that would mean overcrowded conditions apart from having too much wastes produced by these big poopers as previously stated.

Pls change your tank maintenance from weekly to daily while you wait for upgrading of tank. Weekly is not enough considering your tank is only 20 gallons and waste production is quite high. Do daily water change of 20-30%. 30-40% is more preferable.

Edit: Your plec looks more like a common plec. Not worth it in a 20 gallons tank. They will eventually outgrow the tank as they tend to reach 14 inches max size.
 

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Thread moved to a more appropriate section and pictures adjusted to avoid large bandwidths.:)
 

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Yes agreed with Blue. That is way to many fish for a 20 fish tank. I do hope that the pleco's survive...poor little guys Because since u didnt cycle the tank ( not ur fault, u just didnt know ) your water parimeters will be varied, and once u get ammonia and nitrite that is very very toxic/harmful to the fish and pleco's can be sensitive to water quality...Persanolly i would take the pleco's and all the goldfish except 2 ( just guessing ) so you can cycle the tank...If you havnt read up on the " cycle " topic than this is short term what it is:
The fish make poop, which is turned into ammonia, and ammonia is very very harmful to the fish. Than in a little time the ammonia turns into nitrITE which is still VERY toxic to the fish along with ammonia. The point of cycling the tank is to get bacteria colonies in the tank because bacteria consumes the ammonia and nitrite and turns that into nitrATE. NitrATE isnt harmful barely at all BUT must be kept under 40. Once your ammonia is 0, Nitrite is 0, and nitrate under 40, your tank is cycled. Your probably wondering how to test the water or something huh? Well, i would recommend going to the LFS and getting a MASTER TEST KIT. It includes test kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph, kh or gh. Hope this helped!

Nick :D
 

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Not sure if this was mentioned, but if that is a live plant in the back left corner, you need to take it out of its plastic thing, tear off all the junk from the roots and just plant the roots in the substrate. FYI. Good luck with your new tank!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thank you every one for your wonderful informations. Gossh... i did not know i have to change water everyday, if this is the case. Are you sure?. Though the petshop owner did not told me this information. He actually says that its alright for the gold fish and actually he told me also to change the water only once a month because i have this bacteria solution to put everyday. But i did not follow it because in the solution it says once a week. I will have to get today the test kit.
I am worried though but my gold & pleco fish seems to look alright to me.
Thank you also for telling me about the live plant. I have no idea that i have to take it off from the basket.
I will follow up later.
 

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Hi Swing, you will only need to carry out daily water changes until your tank has cycled, after that you could probably move to weekly changes.

When you get your water testing kit, be sure that it is the liquid variety as the testing strips do not give reliable readings.

I would also advise that you take some of the fish back as you are way overstocked for a cycling tank of that size.

When you have taken your water readings post the results on here, and we will be able to advise you from there. :D
 

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Swing said:
Thank you every one for your wonderful informations. Gossh... i did not know i have to change water everyday, if this is the case. Are you sure?. Though the petshop owner did not told me this information. He actually says that its alright for the gold fish and actually he told me also to change the water only once a month because i have this bacteria solution to put everyday. But i did not follow it because in the solution it says once a week. I will have to get today the test kit.
I am worried though but my gold & pleco fish seems to look alright to me.
Thank you also for telling me about the live plant. I have no idea that i have to take it off from the basket.
I will follow up later.
So your lfs told you that? This is not the case at all. They are trying to rip you off your cash.:dunno: I'd research first before buying fish. You're not the only one who was victimized by unscrupulous lfs who give wrong advices but many other members here.:roll:

Bacteria solution will never work at all. Monthly water change is not enough. I have suggest daily water changes as your fish can poop a lot meaning you have too much ammonia which is quite deadly to the fish. As your tank hasn't cycled at all, daily water changes by almost 50% is the only option to save your fish until you can upgrade to a larger tank.

Bold sentence: Yes, they do seem alright but they are actually living only in borrowed time. Sooner or later, they will gasp for oxygen in your tank and eventually die as a result of too high ammonia.

Pls make sure your lfs will give you refunds for those fish they wrongly give you. Don't hesitate to ask for more questions.:)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hello everyone,
I got the test kit for ammonia. The result is .01574
Temp: 17 C & PH is 8.4
I changed the water today plus I put a new plant. I see some green dots of algae in the glass and from where the filtered water flows. Is this a sign that my tank already cycled?? Not sure though. I am using this bacterlife solution, once a week everytime I change water, which says on the label that it speeds up the nitrogen cycle and eats wastes and sludge.
I think helps cycle my tank. Am I right? coz I am just guessing.
I cant give back the fish coz they are more cramped from where I got them.
Is my ammonia test alright? I changed the water last friday then I tested today for ammonia. I changed also water today 20%
The tank looks cloudy everytime I change water. Is this normal?? but it become clear after a day or two. Is this alright?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Its me again, Do I still have to change the water everyday? Is this will give more stress on the fish?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Its me again sorry, the test kit for ammonia is 2 liquid reagent which I mix with the water from the tank.
 

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Hi Swing. As long as you have ammonia and nitrite readings you do have to keep doing water changes. The water changes will dilute the ammonia.

What kind of test kit are you using, as I don't understand your ammonia reading. Is it a liquid test kit, and what make is it?
 

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Swing said:
Its me again, Do I still have to change the water everyday? Is this will give more stress on the fish?
Try to monitor water stats before doing water changes.
If you detect ammonia and nitrites, do water changes so you can dilute them immediately.:)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Its waterlife ammonia test. Its a liquid test kit which I mix with 2 reagents then I check the color chart. Theres a calculation after that:
Measured total ammonia x % unionized ammonia (from given table chart) devided by 100.
It says "any unionized ammonia reading above 0.1mgs/litre is dangerous if persists. Reading above 0.75 mgs/ltre are swiftly lethal and partial water changes are urgently needed."

I got result .01574 Its below dangerous reading. So home free!!! I have to think about larger tank in a years time???I have to save from now on. I'll keep you all posted for any news. So far its good. :D I'll post if i will encounter any problem.
Thank you for all your support.
Blue keep up the good work!! :lol: :idea:
 

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the cloudiness is probably just your sand being stirred up when you do your water change, this will happen every time you change your water unless you put a plate in your tank to pour your water on so it wont irritate your sand...the sand will settle in 24 hours time. =)
 

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Welcome, Swing! I am glad to hear your fish are surviving. cycling your tank does take a bit of time, just be patient.

Goldfish thrive in cooler waters, with lots of oxygen. We have already determined that you may have over crowded your tank, but since you cannot take them back: in addition to awaiting the tank to be cycled correctly, try to use a 'more than adequate' mechanical filter on the tank, and add extra aeration ( a bubble wall perhaps?) to the tank. Although the fancy-tailed goldfish (like the black moor) don't care for lots of current in the tank, the over-crowded tank will be better off with more oxygen. The current, caused by the additional aeration bubbles, will provide the extra oxygen that goldfish thrive on. :) Good luck to you.
 
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