Tropical Fish Keeping banner

Nanofish tank upgrade journal

31K views 345 replies 9 participants last post by  thekoimaiden 
#1 ·
I went shopping today and picked up a new aquarium and glass lid. This is going to be the start of upgrading one of my tanks to something larger. The new 20 gallon long is still small, but I don't have the space for anything larger. Someday I will be able to combine my two Southeast Asian microfish aquariums into one large one, but that is still a time away. For now I'm just happy to be getting something bigger than a 10 gallon. The 55 just has to stay in the basement, while my dreams of a 75 are also on hold.

There's literally nothing to show for the new tank. It's an empty aquarium and glass lid. So instead I'll show off a few pictures of the tank that it is replacing. The pictures are a month or two old, because my batteries are dead. I even tried switching them out with the ones in all my remotes. I just spent two hours in the car going to the fish store and back, so I'm not going out for batteries. Newer pics will have to wait. I'm just too excited to wait to post though.







Right now the tank is home to pond snails and 8 Boraras naevus, as well as a range of plants (14 kinds!). I love how it looks but want the extra space for more plants and a lot more fish.

The filter (Finnex PX-360 mini canister) will be moving from the 10 to the 20 long. It's rated for 100 gph, so should be good. I will need a new light and am leaning towards a 30" T5NO. With as fast as my floaters grow that should be the perfect amount of light. I'm also going to use Miracle Gro Organic Choice Potting Mx again, although this time I might use Estes marine sand as a cap. I'm trying to figure out if black sand would look goofy with the rocks I have currently. I do like really dark substrates though. I'm also trying to figure out the way to go with driftwood, ie use the piece I have, a larger manzanita piece, or a whole bunch of smaller pieces.

When the change over is ready to happen the fish will be moved to another tank for a few weeks to make sure the substrate isn't leaching ammonia. When it's deemed safe they will be put back in.

That's basically where I'm at. Now the fun part, which is getting to decide on which fish and plants. I have some ideas, but I'll save that for another post.
 
See less See more
3
#60 ·
You do. You NEED the sand. YESTERDAY, at the latest! LOL! *I* am having a hard time killing the excitement, and it isn't my tank!

Hmmm, I guess you could do a 'control' test on the next batch of snails, some you can put in a tank where you use the ferts, and the other in a tank where you don't. . . do you put ferts in your grandmother's tank? You said she has snails, right?
 
#61 ·
I put root tabs in her tank and that was it. She has plenty of pond snails. I have some of those as well. I've been seeing babies pond snails in my 10 and 40 since I haven't been dosing them with ferts. She also has at least one ramshorn. I haven't gotten her MTS though.

I put some shrimp pellets in my 10 gallon and looked with a flashlight last night. I only saw one MTS feeding. Comprehensive might not be a bad idea if I want to keep them.
 
#63 ·
lol Comprehensive would be my seventh fertilizer. One I don't use because of the soft water though. I still have a whole lot of variety.

I figured i would get home from work check Amazon and see that the package was sent. Much rejoicing would ensue, followed by ordering amazing plants so that when I had my lucky to get three day weekend I could play around with setting everything up. Yeah not happening. So should i continue to wait to get plants or order now?

Also on my to do list is to e-mail any place I can think of that ships fish and see if they ever get any kuhli loaches in and if so what species.
 
#65 ·
I could plant in the 10 gallon or another tank. I wouldn't leave them floating. I'm going to be super annoyed if the sparkle sand delay means I end up not being able to get Lagenandra thwaitesii to try.

Wet Spot has P. seminicata, P. oblonga, and P. anguillaris. Frank's Aquarium has P. seminicata and just last month had P. cf piperata (probably P. cf shelfordi from what Loaches Online said). I e-mailed Batfish Aquatics in MD and the owner said he should be getting some in a few months and that as much as 40% of what he gets when he orders them are "bycatch". Since you are in the same state and I have no idea how suppliers work I had said about someone finding dwarf loaches and he said "That was a very, very lucky catch of your friend". I hope that makes you love your little guys even more.

If anyone knows any other places that specialize in unusual fish let me know. Never hurts to have options. ;) Especially if I do more than one kuhli species. Can i do more than one in this size tank?
 
#66 ·
Well, for all intents and purposes, P. semicincta are what we talk about when we say P.Kuhli. From what I've read (and I could be wrong) it's very unlikely that any "true" Kuhli loaches ever really make it into the trade, except by accident, maybe. . .because they inhabit such a small area compared to the others. . .I really would like to see a study done on if they're *actually* different species, because I can't seem to dig up very much information showing a clear difference between the two. . . but I have no idea, lol!

I'm sticking to my guns on this one. . . there is something going on with the loach population! 40% bicatch!!? Has it ALWAYS been this way? Because I know that 'Kuhli loaches' used to be really common and easy to find. I saw them in every fish shop! Now the shops seem to be having such a difficult time getting them in.

Nothing could make me love my P.cuneovirgata more! They're just awesome! Ever since I pegged down what they are, I've been fighting the urge to go out and get more of them just because I'm fairly sure I'll never see the lil' guys again, and they're so awesome! You can try calling Tom's Tropicals. . . maybe they'll ship them to you? I've never had a reason to ask, lol! Offer still stands though - I'll grab some (if they're still there, my cousin saw them a week or so ago), QT them, and figure out how to ship a fish, lol!

If you didn't have any other bottom dwellers in the 20l, I'd say you could *probably* get away with two groups of 6 different types of 3" loaches. When I had my 29 (same floor space), I felt that the right amount would be a single shoal of 9 fish, but you could probably squeeze a couple more fish in, if you stuck to a light stocking of fish that like the higher levels. I think everyone would be happier with a larger shoal of a single speceis, though. Heh, if you went with the dwarfs, well. . . I had 10 in a 10 gallon tank for 3 months, and they seemed to be doing very well in there!

And. . . as long as you have somewhere to plant them. . . HUZZAH FOR PLANTS! I wish that sand would hurry up and arrive!!!
 
#67 ·
Sadly Jes, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a drop in the Pangio population. Most people just don't know how to care for these guys, and they die in improper tanks. I don't think anyone has breed them reliably for the trade. So as long as there is unregulated wild collection then we'll see a drop in population. I would LOVE to breed some species of Pangio one day. Doesn't really matter which one to me. But you should totally become a Pangio loach shipper, Jes. ;)

I waiting until I knew just where my substrate was before I ordered plants, Cory. Mine still isn't here yet, but I went ahead an ordered plants knowing that the tank would be set up before the plants got here. Since you have a 3-day weekend, go ahead and order your plants. Don't want to miss out on an opportunity to get something rare!

Maybe you could email Msjinkxd and ask if she knows any importers that might have dwarf Pangio? I she doesn't like them, but she might know someone who does.
 
#68 ·
Never type on here right before bedtime I made some mistakes in my last post. The Wet Spot had P. anguillaris, but don't seem to anymore. The P. cf piperata that Frank's Aquarium had was probably P. cf anguillaris. The Wet Spot had some P. cf shelfordi for about a week and i got mixed it up in my head when I was tired. Not to mention spelling semicincta completely wrong.

I can't speak for if kuhlis are getting tougher to find. I know they seem tough now. Is it a seasonal thing? I did hear rumors that that either get packed too many to a bag before being sent overseas or that a mild "poison" was used to help catch the little buggers. Those are internet rumors so believe them at your own risk without some real proof.

Jes, I think you're misunderstanding the bycatch. Probably my fault since that was also in my late night message. What he meant was say he orders a hundred P. semicincta from his Singapore distributor, 60 of those will be P. semicincta while the other 40 will be other species of Pangios that were caught along with them. Not the species they were trying to catch, but from the same area and got collected by accident.

I was of the same mind about P. semicincta and P. kuhli after all the research I've done. Frank's has P. kuhli listed though and he said that he was able to get P. semicincta. I still have to write him back so maybe I should ask the difference. He also told me though he could order kuhlis, but had no idea if he would be sent the species he ordered. He can also order P. myersi. Probably too big for the new tank, but I bet they would look good in my 40b. My South American biotope 40b. Do you see what you loach people are doing to me?!?

I thought it would be great to have a pretty large group of one of the small species and then a smaller group of one of the more normal sized ones. If that would work. That's right I was talking about having a kuhli loach as a centerpiece fish! Why? Because I'm weird and it would be awesome! Plus people keep posting videos and pictures on here and making me jealous!

Frank told me that Barbucca diabolica hasn't been on any import lists in over a year. I'll find them one day I hope, but for now they can be crossed off the possible stocking list.He didn't say why.

I had thought about e-mailing Msjinkzd about if she knows anyone. She has sent me a friend of her's that sold live cultures. I haven't gotten around to ordering those yet, but his site is bookmarked. She's always seems in the know.

No sand shipped yet, but I'm thinking you're right Izzy. Between my 29 gallon, my 10 gallon, and my grandmother's 20 gallon I should have plenty of temporary planting areas. They might melt with the replanting, but odds are they would do a little of that anyway after I got them. I'll give it one more day since I'm off tomorrow. If it's still not sent then I'll start ordering plants. Odds are they the plants might not even get shipped out until Monday anyway.
 
#69 ·
We have fully corrupted you!!! Loaches would love a blackwater tank with a sandy bottom and leaves. ;-) And they make great centerpieces! I consider them the centerpiece of my 29 gal because they are the whole reason I have that tank.

I'm pretty sure kuhlies are seasonal fishes. I don't think any are captive bred on large scales. That could account for their scarcity right now.
 
#70 ·
heehee, no - I understood! It's always been a thing with the eel-like loaches since many of them live in the same areas, I just didn't know the percentage was so high, and am wondering if it's always been that way.

I've also read that they are seasonal, but I've been looking for them for an entire year. While they do come up here and there online, it's just odd to me that LFS who have always had them in-stock year-round for as far back as I can remember are now seeming to have trouble getting them at all. Not just my observations - I've spoken to several shop owners/managers about it, they seem baffled, too. Could just be a random local thing, though. I really hope so. . .it would be HORRIBLE if we endangered these darling lil' loachlings. . .

I would LOVE it if 'Frank' could shed some light on the difference between P.kuhli and P.semicinta! Been wondering about that one for some time now, lol!

I think Izzy is right, you're turning into a loachaphile - and it's a wonderful thing! They're such fun little fishies, and they WOULD love your tank(s) and water!

HEY!!! YOU seem to have the mad dwarf fishies connections. . . have YOU come across Hyphessobrycon takasei anywhere on your travels? Been looking for THEM for ages, too, lol!
 
#71 ·
I love the loaches that I currently have, and while I know kuhlis don't act the same, you guys have me sold on wanting them. I was always under the mistaken impression that I'd never seen them if I got them. Doesn't seem to be the case though.

That percentage does seem high to me. I mean you think you'd see more oddball species than if it was at 40%. Of course I've never bought one kuhli, let alone a hundred so I have no clue.

I really, really hope kuhlis are not becoming endangered or scarce in the wild. I could easily point someone to just as many people selling panda loaches (Yaoshania pachychilus) right now as kuhli loaches. Panda loaches are very rare, extremely hard to collect, and expensive. The cheaper fish should be easy to find!

Frank said he has to look at them head on because for him P. kuhli has a thinner face. He also said though that banded kuhlis are so variable that it's hard to say for sure.

I wouldn't say I have any good dwarf fish connections. I've been looking for Hyphessobrycon heliacus for the last year. I would say I wouldn't have bought mine if I knew I couldn't get a proper group, but that's probably a lie since I would have felt bad for them. I've never seen H. takasei for sale anywhere. Both of those guys are from Brazil...coincidence or something to do with exporting fish from that country? I really need to increase my knowledge of people that raise fish. While not the case for Pangios, you would think someone somewhere in the US is breeding Hyphessobrycon species. lol Don't even get me started on some of the Corydoras species I'd like to find. Apparently I can't like a nice normal easy to find fish.
 
#72 ·
*giggle* Kuhli loaches *SHOULD* be nice and easy-to-find!!!

Intersting hearing his thoughts on the difference between the two. I'd really have to see what he meant, though. My larger loaches, sold as P.Kuhli, probably P. semicincta all look SO different. I can't imagine how you'd be able to pinpoint something like a thinner face on them. Some of them are thicker, some thinner, some shorter, some longer, lol. I have NO problems telling the 5 I have apart. . .

I'm quite in love with your little hovering loaches, too - I'd love to get my hands on those at some point. I don't think they'd go in Becoming very well, but. . . *LUFFS* I've never had a fish-type loach, and always wondered at the similarities and differences between the two - but I think YOUR lil' dudes are something different altogether.

I think P.Kuhli must be very shy if kept in the wrong conditions, and that they must usually be to get that rep. I started with THREE alone, and they never ever hid. Izzy had a bit of a different experience with her Javas, they were a bit on the hidey side when she first got 'em

Sooooo. . .back on track, are you any closer to actually having a list of who's gonna live in this tank, ultimately?

COME ON, SAND! GET HERE!!! THIS IS GETTING RIDICULOUS!!!
 
#73 ·
There's so much variation in Pangio species that I'm not sure how he tells the difference, just like you said. Seriously Fish and Loaches Online both have pages for kuhlis that look different, but they have no clue what they are. Even species like P. oblonga might be as many as four different species. I guess as an owner it doesn't really matter what species you call your striped or brown loach as long as you enjoy it and it thrives in your tank.

lol Why don't you think the hovering loaches would go well in Becoming? Too many fish already on the bottom? They do spend some time there. They are super peaceful and really not hyper, at least mine aren't. The feeding time frenzy of kuhli loaches is something I never see with my guys. I have them in with Dario hysginon with absolutely no problems if that gives you any indications. The Dario bother each other way more than the loaches do. I've even seen the two feeding side by side. Yeah this was all me starting to turn the tables!

The ultimate list? Umm maybe? I have the top choices. Ideally I'd do Boraras naevus, a dwarf loach, and either Burmese rosy loaches or Hengles rasbora. The rasbora might be better since then I could slightly stain the water. Not sure if that would bother the rosy loaches.

The status of the sand is...drum roll please...shipping soon! No idea why, but I'm beginning to think it's not shipping soon. Just a gut feeling. Either that or the fact that it's said that for almost the last two weeks. lol Didn't think I had started a thread too early. Don't worry lurkers *waves to lurkers* they will be pictures eventually. Not saying they will be good, but their will be pics!
 
#74 ·
GURG!!!! You need to pester those fools, or cancel the order and go through WayFair or Walmart.com I got mine REALLY fast through them.

Well, yeah. . . the bottom of my tank is pretty darn full right now, and I just really get the feeling that my rams would NOT like them very much. Rams tend to hover around toward the bottom of the tank, too. . . I could be wrong here, but my gut instinct is that it wouldn't be a good matching. They're REALLY COOL fish, though. I'm definitely interested in owning some one day :)

Heh. Lurkers. You know all about lurkers, don't you? Hiding in the shadows, never a word spoken. . . *harumph* Well. . . FORGET the lurkers. *I* want some pictures, lol! And videos! MAKE IT HAPPEN! What's your sister doing this weekend? I think ALL of your tanks need updated photos taken. And Granny's too! ;)
 
#75 ·
I got the other sand fast, just not the second purchase. Not much point in canceling it either. It says it will ship by Monday. Will see. Either way I'm not totally impressed.

The hovering loaches like to swim midwater too, but you do have plenty going on at substrate level. One day I wil be able to really upgrade and have those guys and kuhlis together with maybe some other loaches.

lol My sister is working this week. She works retail and so does my brother-in-law the driver of that family. He works overnight as well so finding any time that the three of us have off at the same time is tricky. Seems to be holidays that I get to see them. I'll try and take some pics tomorrow, but there's really not much to show.

Don't bust on the lurkers! Don't let all the tattoos fool you I'm a shy guy.
 
#79 ·
You suck. And that's not how it'd work. What would end up happening is that I wouldn't give my loachy clan to ANYONE! I'd hoard them, because (almost) nobody is good enough to raise my babies. Plus I'd get all attached. I'll share with you, though. And Izzy can has some loachbutts. . . the rest will go into tank after tank after tank. I'll be like on that show, Hoarders. The Kuhli Loach Hoarder. . .

No, what would *REALLY* end up happening is. . .NOTHING! Because if it were really that easy to breed loaches inc captivity - it would happen more!
 
#80 ·
I'm not saying they are easy to breed, just not impossible. How many people actually set out to do it?

I like the idea though of you being the kuhli loach hoarder. If you're going that route though you should add a Pokemon vibe to it as in "Gotta catch 'em all".
 
#81 ·
I ordered some plants today! Got Cryptocoryne petchii and Lagenandra thwaitesii, both of which I really wanted along with wendtii green and Mi Oya. That's the good news. When I ordered the sand there was plenty of all those, plus other crypts I wanted like walkeri. With the sand delay I got one of each. Would have been nice to have a few of each for small groups. Now I'm slightly annoyed.
 
#83 ·
Still no sparkle sand shipped. I think I could have walked to this place and back a few times. No idea where it is in PA, but still 2 weeks? Oh well.

I definitely want to get more petchii. I think that and my green gecko will be great for the foreground. I do have some Mi Oya so getting more isn't a big priority. It's perfect for the background though. I need some midground plants since my last bronze wendtii melted away.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top