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That's interesting because Seagrest is widely regarded as one of the best wholesalers around. I read an article in TFK just a few months ago and their quarantine system is intensive. I'm sorry but I still have a hard time believing that so many fish are showing myco lesions and yet no one is doing anything about it. If this was as prevalent as you say, then I would have to believe more would be said about it in places like TFK and that, furthermore, if so many fish were being imported with a disease that is potentially transmittable to humans, that imports would have been stopped or curbed severely.

What I basically mean is please stop saying so many fish have myco when you cannot prove it, BB. All you are doing is scaring people. Let's just deal with confirmed cases.

Oh, Coppermoon, I am so sorry about what you and BB have had to go through. I honestly am.
 

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No matter who writes a paper, that paper still only represents one person's point of view. It's important to read a variety of material on a subject in order to get a balanced perspective.
The lab I used (Deborah..Department Manager) did a google search during the time of our first phone conversation, and our 2nd conversation. She said she could not believe the amount of BAD information out there. Mycos is NOT TB. TB is reserved for Human Tuberculosis. It is in the same family (cell structure). The "point of view" that needs to be read is from labs that actually deal with this stuff.
 

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From a Microbiologist standpoint (yes that's me! BSAST MT(ASCP)) most bacteria disease are caused but lack of care. Most bacterial disease can be prevented by proper hygiene, or in the case of a fishroom, proper maintenance. As far as accidentally letting a bad fish in? Well, would you put an old lady with pneumonia in a room of babies? I think not. It's called quarantine for a reason. And in almost 100% of cases, a bad fish put in a healthy tank is not going to infect healthy fish. That fish will die and that will be the end of it. Healthy immune systems fight off disease.
I got in a male breeder (who had it). He was not showing signs...he was bred with 4 of my females. I raised his fry and showed them. One male I only showed 1x (Monkey Face...he looked like the original male). I bred him to a DT female. MF developed "columnaris" so I started treatment...nothing worked. MF died. DT female came down with "columnaris" Double dosed for the fin rot...showed improvement ONLY when she was on meds. Sent her with a friend of mine who is in nursing school and studying microbiology and she couldn't get the colunmaris to grow. Big Blue (my avatar) came down with it...tried a different treatment...he died. Daddy (breeder)-crossed him with a yellow female with awesome fins...he came down with it and died....yellow female was crossed with a beautiful Yellow PK male...female came down with it...PK male came down with it.

All these fish are kept in their own containers with 100% water changes.
 

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Now I'm really scared that I'm going to get really sick from any fish that I buy...:blueworry:
I have had my hands in my fish water for the last 2 years (I got it 2 yrs ago), and I don't have it. It is possible to get it, but it is NOT TB, and it is very rare that a healthy human will get it.
 

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That's interesting because Seagrest is widely regarded as one of the best wholesalers around. I read an article in TFK just a few months ago and their quarantine system is intensive. I'm sorry but I still have a hard time believing that so many fish are showing myco lesions and yet no one is doing anything about it. If this was as prevalent as you say, then I would have to believe more would be said about it in places like TFK and that, furthermore, if so many fish were being imported with a disease that is potentially transmittable to humans, that imports would have been stopped or curbed severely.

What I basically mean is please stop saying so many fish have myco when you cannot prove it, BB. All you are doing is scaring people. Let's just deal with confirmed cases.

Oh, Coppermoon, I am so sorry about what you and BB have had to go through. I honestly am.
Thank you. I do think the main reason this is going on now is that people don't know what to look for. Both BB and I got fish from US breeders. I contacted the breeder I got my fish from and this breeder had no idea. Neither BB nor I meant to create mass hysteria, but for us to loose so much work and then have it blown off (said with tongue in cheek)...for me, that was more then I could take. I am a small breeder compared to BB, so I can't imagine what she went through to destroy her fish. I put all my babies in a single bowl, told them I was so sorry, added the clove oil, covered the bowl and cried all the way to work. I got home and cried again when I bagged them up. We just want to make sure that correct care info is out there. I'm glad to see the post of something a little easier access, to kill this with.
 

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Myates- all but the betta were in the same tanks. The guppy platy tank has live plats added recently as we'll as 40% water changes weekly so it can't be water quality. The columnar is type stuff that basement betas mentioned was what was on my platy? It was little white bits hanging off her gills. Is it safe to add another fish to my betas old tank? Once I do a 100% water change or two of course.
 

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Coppermoon, you make me want to cry for you and BB. :( I can only imagine how it must have felt for the two of you to go through this.
 

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I have a question about disinfecting... You can't disinfect silk plants, can you? Like, what will soak up the cleaning agents and what won't? If I were to soak silk plants in like, vinegar or bleach or something that will kill TB, is it possible to get it out of the silk plants and decor? Or does everything but the tank need to be tossed?

Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #169 ·
That's interesting because Seagrest is widely regarded as one of the best wholesalers around. I read an article in TFK just a few months ago and their quarantine system is intensive. I'm sorry but I still have a hard time believing that so many fish are showing myco lesions and yet no one is doing anything about it. If this was as prevalent as you say, then I would have to believe more would be said about it in places like TFK and that, furthermore, if so many fish were being imported with a disease that is potentially transmittable to humans, that imports would have been stopped or curbed severely.

What I basically mean is please stop saying so many fish have myco when you cannot prove it, BB. All you are doing is scaring people. Let's just deal with confirmed cases.

Oh, Coppermoon, I am so sorry about what you and BB have had to go through. I honestly am.
They DON'T know. I pointed them out to the lfs on more than one occasion and even got them info on the disease. They REFUSE to even take the fish OFF the shelves and STILL sell them. Complacency and ignorance.. and that word I am not allowed to use here.. stupidity.
 

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columnaris is little white fluff hanging off of your fish isn't it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #171 ·
columnaris is little white fluff hanging off of your fish isn't it?
The picture I posted I thought the grey fluff was columnaris. IT IS MYCOS. If you see that stuff in your fish, and it does not respond to meds for columnaris.. you have mycos in your fish. The information has been pasted in this thread on how to deal with it. Not every one can put down fish. I look for the smallest trace of it and act immediately. So far we are good. I still have 3 large barrack systems to clean and it is going to take a lot of time to make sure every nook and cranny gets hit with the proper concentration of antibacterial. NOT going to do this again because I was not thorough.
 

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I have a question about disinfecting... You can't disinfect silk plants, can you? Like, what will soak up the cleaning agents and what won't? If I were to soak silk plants in like, vinegar or bleach or something that will kill TB, is it possible to get it out of the silk plants and decor? Or does everything but the tank need to be tossed?

Thanks.
I would say yes silk plants can be cleaned with the TB killer. You will have to take extra measures to make sure you get ALL the cleaner off. I am using it on live plants and wiping each leaf, stem, root off. Plants are pissed at me, but are coming back (cept the wisteria). My cleaner..I can feel it on the plants, so I continue to rinse under running water until it is gone.
 

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The picture I posted I thought the grey fluff was columnaris. IT IS MYCOS. If you see that stuff in your fish, and it does not respond to meds for columnaris.. you have mycos in your fish.
Not necessarily. There are strains of columnaris that are resistant to meds and in addition, some fish themselves may simply be too far gone for medication to be effective.

For those who may just be coming to this thread I want to post a warning:

Not every hard to cure disease in your fish is mycobacteria.
 

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Discussion Starter · #174 ·
Not necessarily. There are strains of columnaris that are resistant to meds and in addition, some fish themselves may simply be too far gone for medication to be effective.

For those who may just be coming to this thread I want to post a warning:

Not every hard to cure disease in your fish is mycobacteria.

That may be true. But having a disinfectant on hand that will kill the mycos will wipe out anything else your fish may have gotten. So when you get new fish and restart.. there is NOTHING there that may infect them.

And from what I was told.. the current columnaris is not that resistant.. IF columnaris.. it should respond to meds.
 

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I have seen columnaris that did not even show the usual signs (fluff, patches, sores, deteriorating scales) until she already had dropsy. Only true sign: lethargy. And I was too late. I am so used to the common signs :/

I have to agree that not every hard to kill disease is this disease. Be reminded as there are always different strains of the worst diseases, some strains you can kill... Some get stronger. Some are easily mistaken for something else. Making sure that YOUR fish are in tip top condition, makes it a lot easier to know when something is wrong. An already sick fish... You won't ever know if he is "lazy" (i.e. cold water) or really sick.

BUT if you do feel you suspect a contagious disease has hit, just throw everything out. All else fails, throw it out. Gravel especially for the stronger but not "impossible" to get rid of diseases, I usually toss the gravel and porous ornaments such as fabric plants.
 

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There are, according to The Super Simple Guide to Common Fish Diseases by Lance Jepsen, 3 types of bacterial infections: peracute, that strikes without warning and kills without external signs; acute, the classical example with the fuzzies and septicemia; and chronic, a slow-moving case in which ulcers are formed in the body cavity due to the length in which a fish has this. This means any bacterial infection, not limited to myco.

And this is important. Furthermore, the book notes "There is a wide range of clinical signs linked to this disease, and many parasitic, bacterial, and fungal diseases can mimic mycobacteriosis." italics emphasis mine
 

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Discussion Starter · #177 ·
hrrrmmm.. need to check that book out.

And I agree.. the signs of mycos are signs of many other diseases. And with fish and no lab, it is hard to know what you really have. The mycos info is just to keep in the back of your head. And the use of a disinfectant that will kill it will go a long way towards killing anything else unwanted in your fish room. thanks for the reference. going to go check it out.
 

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wasn't trying to wake this thread up, but I can't help but wonder some of the other mods opinions on Mycobacteria, as in all the strains that affect fish, also which ones and what are the chances of a person contracting it?

I know i have read what i can find but there seems to be only real threat to those with immune deficiencies and open wounds to hands.

I was put off from keeping fish for a while after learning about myco, I am such a germophobe, even though I have kept almost every type of pet.

Since I am back in the hobby, this alarms me, because So many pet store workers have no qualms at all in placing there hands directly in tanks.
I know half of them don't even clean floors/ equipment regularly.
I find my self wondering how often outbreaks actually occur in humans?
in fish?
Are we making more of it than need be?
To be honest it freaks me out knowing it can happen.
Think about how many ignorant people are out there, but the old saying goes ignorance is bliss.
It is very difficult to be educated, and logical, as well as the average everyday joe. i know the members here range from all walks of life and education levels.
I truly wonder how any of us can put it out of our minds, I know it occurs naturally.
Should we really be using more harsher chemicals for disinfecting, isn't this why super bugs occur?
I am pondering using more than good old bleach, vinegar and Alcohol. I do want to keep myself and family safe, but I just don't know what to believe at times.
I read in one scientific article that 90% alcohol will kill about anything if left on for 10 min or left to dry.

I am sorry for rambling I just think it is a good/ important topic to discuss. I am late to the party anyone have further thoughts?
 

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I am currently reading a paper about a group of people studied that contracted M. marinum. The photos are nasty. From what I can tell most of these people had immunodeficiencies already and most were older. I'll have to get back to you when I'm done analyzing it.
Currently, the people with the worst symptoms were the last to start seeking medical attention and that is a big aspect of the disease.
Nasty marks on the area affected, some were operated on, haven't read the side effects. One guy got it in his eye (he was fishing and the hook got into his eye). So it seems you do need open wounds as well.

The truth is that there is so much more to this disease than this thread says, and it's easy to freak people out with all this misinformation here... Things such as saying "TB" (no none of your fish have tuberculosis and you will not get tuberculosis from your fish).

I really have to study for finals but hopefully will follow up properly soon...
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