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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all.:wave:

I had a journey this afternoon to an lfs. I visited a shop which is about 20 km away from my home. I was surprised he has new stocks yet those fish are overpriced.:sarcastic:
Here's the list:
1. Albino rummy-nose tetra-110 pesos
~So expensive.:blueworry: The original strain alone is just 20 pesos so why is the man-made strain so expensive?:sob:

2. Doradid catfish(I'll try to identify this one if I can)-90 pesos
~Not bad of a price. It's barely 2 inches in size. Interesting fish but I'm not buying ithem without knowing the exact ID.:wink2: I wouldn't risk getting a catfish that grew to 12 inches instead.:blink:

3. Long-finned serpae tetra-80 pesos
~Ridiculously overpriced.:blink: The original variant is just 10 pesos so why does a long-finned serpae tetra have to be expensive?:sarcastic: Those vicious fin nippers have no use of their long fins anyway.:shake:

4. Black-banded Leporinus(Leporinus sexfasciatus)-900 pesos
~They grow quite large so it's not for me anyway. Poor Boesemann's Rainbows have their fins nipped by about 15 leporinus in a 30 gallons tank.:sob: Other tankmates are marbled headstanders and Botia morleti. Both are also quite vicious.

5. Siamese Tiger Fish
~20 cm in size here.:thumbsup: Costs 750 pesos. Big deal. I won't buy that fish without another tank.:wink2:

6. Marbled Headstander
~700 pesos. Nippy and vicious.

I just made a visit to buy Sera Florena, a liquid fertilizer for my lil' plants.:love:


As for tomorrow, I'll be meeting my friend and he'll give me lots of aquarium plants for free.:thumbsup:

Regards,
Blue
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I forgot to add that the first lfs I visited has four 'red severums'.:sarcastic: Interesting. The owner mentioned they are 'very rare'.:shock2: Diamond and red sevs are rarer than the original green and gold.:quiet:

I've never seen the diamond variants. The red sevs here measure about 15 cm.:)
Anyone can confirm the rarity of those sevs?:)
 

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what?!!? are you serious????....

















....you use pesos in the phillipines??? :lol: :lol:
 

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Blue, how much is your peso compared to the US dollar? (I can then convert it to the CDN dollar) 8)
 

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I may be able to help you to understand some of your questions. The higer cost for the tank raised fishes, as with clownfish in saltwater, is due to the larval state, and the expense of the process of tank raising them. Some species of fish are not as easy to tank raise, and the expense of doing it has to show up somewhere if we want them to be continued as tank raised. In many cases, it's less expensive to go out and catch them wild and ship them in.
As for the fish being chewed up by tankmates, this is simply a careless LFS. They either didn't know enough about any of the fish in the tank, or they ordered something they didn't have proper space to keep until it sold. Unfortunately, this is too common in LFS's, and unless people complain and refuse to buy the damaged fish, they have no reason to change the way they do things. Too many people want to "rescue the poor fish" that are being chewed apart, but this only lets the LFS know that the market for them is good regardless of their condition, so no reason to put more into it than needed for business reasons. It's cheaper for them to keep doing it this way.
Most customers have no idea how much influence they really carry in any store, or there would already be more changes made. For business to function properly, customers need to be happy and keep buying. In the case of the rainbows that was mentioned, think about this: If the store orders 20 rainbows for $2 each, put them into the tank of headstanders and others, and the fish are damaged.. people refuse to buy them and tell them that its because the fish are damaged, what is the store losing in those fish? There is food, time/maintenance where they pay an employee to care for them while they are in the store, and the $2 each that they paid for them. Let's say that 1/2 of those fish die in the store tank either due to damage or old age because they're too damaged to sell, how much money did that store just lose? Now, knowing that people were interested but didn't buy because of the damage, what are the chances that store will set up a better situation for those fish the next time they come in? If, when in better condition, those fish sell... what message does this send to the store? Humanity doesn't even have to play a part this way, and from a business standpoint, taking proper care of them pays better, this becomes a new store policy and everyone wins. Not so hard to fix, really, but customers need to say something instead of just walking away. We can complain all we want here on the boards, but does that fix the problems in the stores, where they are happening?
Sorry if I sound like I'm preaching, but having worked with it for so long, I really think that awareness is the only way its ever going to really change. I feel obligated to enlighten customers to the amount of control they really have in the fish industry. I figure if not me, then who will?
 

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bettababy said:
I may be able to help you to understand some of your questions. The higer cost for the tank raised fishes, as with clownfish in saltwater, is due to the larval state, and the expense of the process of tank raising them. Some species of fish are not as easy to tank raise, and the expense of doing it has to show up somewhere if we want them to be continued as tank raised. quote]

So, what is the better option -- considering the population and habitat wild fish come from and the business of tank raising fish -- is it better to purchase wild or tank raised? And does it vary by type of fish?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Tracy said:
Blue, how much is your peso compared to the US dollar? (I can then convert it to the CDN dollar) 8)
As of today, a US dollar is equivalent to 49.40 pesos.:) 49 pesos and 40 centavos that is.:)
weaselnoze said:
what?!!? are you serious????....

....you use pesos in the phillipines??? :lol: :lol:
What else can we use?:bluelaugh: Dollars? Won't work with politicians making controversies which is shaking the economy.:wink2: Politicians? Dirty word.:sarcastic:
bettababy said:
Sorry if I sound like I'm preaching, but having worked with it for so long, I really think that awareness is the only way its ever going to really change. I feel obligated to enlighten customers to the amount of control they really have in the fish industry. I figure if not me, then who will?
Of course not.:) I took everything wholeheartedly.:) I know your post is right. Oh and the leporinus are 3 inches at the moment with about 10 6-inches rainbows. So overstocked.:sob:
One tank now contains about 50 3-inches goldfish and the tank's size os barely 40 gallons.:sarcastic:
The owner talks in a sarcastic manner.:redmad: Like he knows everything. Does he really know everything when some of the package he sells contain sick fish.:sarcastic:
He is more of a lunatic for trying to sell me even a stingray last June which I had refused because my tanks will not accommodate it quite well.

joeshmoe said:
750pesos what the ?!?!?!?! i dont even no if high or low price
'Tis very expensive for a Siamese Tigerfish. I would guessed it should only be 600-700.
Bristle nose said:
Albino rummy-nose tetra are probably more expensive than the original strain because they are not as common!
Yes, but this one is way too overpriced.:shake: No one can buy extremely sensitive fish like them.:wink2:
dlil said:
Red sevs are becoming quite common in the uk.
Thanks, Daz. Might as well ask the Manilans on how much red sevs cost in their area. I have 3 friends from Manila whom I have been in touch for long.
 

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love_my_fish said:
So, what is the better option -- considering the population and habitat wild fish come from and the business of tank raising fish -- is it better to purchase wild or tank raised? And does it vary by type of fish?
I have to admit, even though it can be more expensive, I prefer the tank raised fish because its better for the environment. Some tank raised fish are less expensive because they are easily bred. Convict cichlids are a good example of that, along with fancy guppys, mollys, etc. etc.
Some people claim that wild fish are more colorful, and in SOME cases, that is true, but that is largely based on diet, so if we learn to mimic the diet from the wild habitat, they can be almost as colorful. I've done this with rams, and my tank bred rams were as colorful as any strain of wild rams I have seen yet.
There are other differences with tank raised vs wild caught fishes... such as immune system, aggression levels, and even instincts. In saltwater fish... tank raised clownfish seldom will host in an anemone because that is a learned trait, not instinctual. It's a matter of doing research on the fish you want and the fish that are available, how they're caught or raised, and what kind of conditions you are prepared to offer them. I advise working with tank raised species as much as possible because it promotes the idea and helps us to introduce new fish into the list of tank raised species at every turn.
 

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Thanks, Eddie :) great site to convert money.

The Phillipines peso is about $.02 US.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
2. Doradid catfish(I'll try to identify this one if I can)-90 pesos
~Not bad of a price. It's barely 2 inches in size. Interesting fish but I'm not buying ithem without knowing the exact ID.:wink2: I wouldn't risk getting a catfish that grew to 12 inches instead.:blink:
Just identified that catfish as Hancock's Talking Catfish.:thumbsup: Oooh..interesting.:crazy: I'll get one when my plants become established. I hate seeing a catfish dislodged several of my plants which have been newly-planted.
I had four Synodontis eupterus before and they dislodged my new plants.:redmad:
 

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Discussion Starter #16
bettababy said:
Some people claim that wild fish are more colorful, and in SOME cases, that is true, but that is largely based on diet, so if we learn to mimic the diet from the wild habitat, they can be almost as colorful. I've done this with rams, and my tank bred rams were as colorful as any strain of wild rams I have seen yet.
I agree. Not in general after all. Some fish are rather drab when in wild form like the guppies. As you can see nowadays, we have elegant guppies available in our pet stores. The downside is that they are not as hardy as the wild and F1 generations.:blueworry:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
St6_Devgru said:
peso to dollar ratio is 52P-1$
That was last August. It's now 49.37. And it's still on the process of lowering along with the rollback of gasoline prices.:wink2:
 

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Blue, you're right, not all fish are more colorful in their wild state. However, one more comment I'd like to make about wild vs tank raised fish. It's becoming a real issue what is happening with some species of fish in the captive environment. They are being dyed, they are being inbred (which can produce sterile fish and weakened immune systems and physical deformities), they are being cross bred in petri dishes in labs (such as parrot fish), all of which should be banned. I was surprised to find out that most of my customers at the store had no idea that parrot fish were not a "natural" species. In cases like this, I would advise avoiding man made or altered fishes. Unfortunately, when dealing with fancy goldfish, you're going to get "man altered" fish, and this has been happening for many many yrs. It is known for sure that many yrs ago the Japanese began cross breeding fancy goldfish to produce things like pearlscales, pom poms, bug eyes, and various other traits because they were found "entertaining" to people and sold quickly. Once again, I am not in approval of this, either. The only fancy goldfish I have are orphans that I've taken in temperarily until I can find them suitable permanent homes. The industry of fish keeping will continue to "morph" our wild fishes until the public stops responding in positive ways. These altered fishes out there have a whole new set of problems of their own, including weakened immune systems. Quite often I have found velvet swordtails to be sterile due to inbreeding and hormone injections to give them brighter colors. The list is endless.
The general point is simply to know what it is, know what has been done to it, if anything, and choose wisely in a manner that preserves our wild species whenever/wherever possible, but at the same time, remember that working with tank raised (naturally) fish will take a lot of burden off of our wild populations.
 
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