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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Leaf Terrestrial plant Plant Flower Organism

I bought the pair from the same tank at the LFS. They were the only two marble with 6 other black lace's. They have grown considerably since I got them. I did/do not know if they are a mated pair and if the eggs are fertilized (will Angels lay eggs if there's no male?)
They were always very friendly in the community, but now they a guarding these white specs very aggressively. They seem to hover about them as though they're fanning the eggs.

I've had more than my share of live bearers, but this is new to me so some research is required.
 

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Angels will only lay eggs when a breeding has taken place. So you have male in there and my guess it is one of the 2 guarding the eggs. These are cichlids after all and like most they tend to get aggressive around there eggs. I can't say if these are a mated pair yet but my understanding is that it generally takes Angels a couple of breedings to get it right. So I wouldn't execpt babies out of this round. So if they keep breeding I would say they are but it could be a one time thing.
 

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My female convict lays eggs without a male present, and I have heard of other species of cichlids doing the same. Even 2 females laying eggs together and protecting them together.
 

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In the absence of a male occasionally two females will spawn. Once in a while you'll get a threesome, angels like to swing that way. If there is minimal white eggs, and they are that light tan color for a few days you do have a pair. Around day 3 you should see wigglers, by day 6-7 they'll be swimmers. Once they're wigglers the parent's may move them, so if they disappear keep an eye on any new area the pair may be hanging around.

New pairs often take a few spawns to get the hang of it, and some pairs never get to the parent raising part. With the inbreeding & line breeding methods used to get the various phenotypes the parent raising instinct has been somewhat bred out. Don't be disappointed if they eat the spawn, wigglers or swimmers. If you haven't hatched baby brine shrimp before now is the time to get those supplies together, but since you mentioned raising livebearers I'm assuming this is something you're familiar with.

If you get them to parent raise the first spawn, or any spawn for that matter you've got a good pair. Fry that were parent raised tend to be parent raisers themselves when they mature. The parents are a lot better at culling then we could ever be, they've been doing it much longer. Try to keep activity around the tank to a minimum, commotion will often spook the parents, and the spawn becomes a snack. There's many books written on breeding angels, one of the best online resources for getting started is Breeding Angelfish
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well it was not my intention to breed them...or live bearers either. I bred live bearers in the 70's, but never egg layers. In those days I hatched brine shrimp in gallon jars.

These two are odd. I bought them together, I presume from the same brood, although as I mentioned, they were the only two marbles in a tank with several other black lace. Anyway, when I bought them they were both between the size of a nickle and a quarter. They both have grown, but one is nearly twice the size of the other.
The larger of the two is the greater protector of the eggs. If another fish comes to close, he will turn horizontal and chase it away at great speed. S/He breaks off after the fish is sufficiently out of the area. Fortunately the plant where the eggs are laid is in the right back corner (60g), so they can have their space without as much disruption to the other fish as if, say, it was in the middle of the tank.

I'll just let it all play out and see what happens. I'm not convinced yet the eggs are fertilized and in addition to fanning them with their fins, here and there the angels are doing a little pecking at them so I don't know if they'll make it even if they are fertilized.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I have wigglers!

I was a bit bummed when I looked tonight and saw that all of the white eggs were gone. Then I noticed a small somewhat grey mass on another leaf and after I got my glasses, they are clearly wigglers!!! Will have to see if they will survive. I wonder if I should move them, but I guess I'll leave them for now. Butterfly Insect Moths and butterflies Leaf Freshwater aquarium
 
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Congrats on a successful pair :) At this time I would leave the wriggles in with the parents and see how they do with raising them. You will need to feed the fry something like baby brine shrimp once they are free swimming. With there being other fish in the tank they may not make it long, depends on how well the parents can do on protecting them. If you really want to try raising angels I would suggest during up a tank for the pair. A 20 gallon high would work, a 29 gallon would probably work better if trying to let parent raise. It all depends on what you would like to do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Congrats on a successful pair :) At this time I would leave the wriggles in with the parents and see how they do with raising them. You will need to feed the fry something like baby brine shrimp once they are free swimming. With there being other fish in the tank they may not make it long, depends on how well the parents can do on protecting them. If you really want to try raising angels I would suggest during up a tank for the pair. A 20 gallon high would work, a 29 gallon would probably work better if trying to let parent raise. It all depends on what you would like to do.
Well, it was just a fluke - I had no idea they were a pair that would pair (if that makes any sense). I'm not really in a position to setup another tank. I have a good 29h, but would need heater, hood, stand and a place to set it up!
I'll just play it by ear and see where it takes us. There are other fish, but the angels have been fiercely protective so far...but as I've learned, it sometimes takes angels several spawns before even they won't eat their young. If they make it to swimmers, maybe I can rescue a few???
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Beautiful Angel fish AbbeysDad and best of luck with the babies !
Thanks - just kinda playing 'wait and see' - comments here and what I've read indicates it often takes angels a few spawns before they handle parenting...if they ever do. Abbey would like to see and grow out baby angels, but I've told her to brace for what may be a disappointment just in case.
 

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You mentioned the option to rescue a few of the wigglers..I often do that with a couple of my pairs, even after half a dozen spawnings,most still are not doing well at parenting. If you do pull a dozen or 20..a gallon jar is plenty big enough to keep them a matter of weeks. Very important is clean, non contaminated water..many use tank water where they came from,or water that has aged 24 hours and de-chlored.I also use the "Marina spawning and holding tank" which is a hang on the back, half gallon(large one) air driven filtered holder. Those work pretty well for me. Or Angelsplus sells spawning jars, too. Can you count your wigglers?
 

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They will drive you crazy because they spawn every 10-14 days.
Try letting them raise their babies and watch and enjoy the experience. It's worth it!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Well the suspense is really something. The wigglers are still holding on. I expect to see swimmers any time but so far still wigglers. With all the wiggling, I dunno what's keeping them on that leaf. I did my water change on Friday, but stayed on the other side of the tank. Now I'm thinking I should put sponge over the one (closest) filter's inlet tube.
So...the saga continues.
 
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