Bah, two bolivian ram females...

The fish in the second photo is likely female, that seems to be a thick ovipositor, but I wouldn't swear to it.

A good way with this species to ID male/female is to observe their interaction in the store tank for several minutes. Fin development and colours are rarely if ever reliable unless the fish is more mature (stores usually have young fish) and in breeding readiness. But males and females will always interact with each other in certain ways.

Also, observe how the two in your tank interact. If you could post a video showing them together, I might be able to tell.

To your question of adding males, this is very risky. First, this species selects its own mate and they bond for life. A male might accept another female for a time, but this does not always last. Seeing them together in the store tank will tell you which have bonded. If these are new acquisitions, will the store allow your to return them if you promise to buy a pair that have bonded?

Byron.

Byron, ive had these lovely ladies for about a month now. When i bought them i sat at the tank they were in for 20 minutes and swore i had a pair. I use a local mom and pop store and the sales lady was actually pretty knowledgeable about sexing them but also said it is hard without their breeding tubes out. We did our best but ended up with 2 females. Will these girls be happy together in the 75 gallon? The fish store has a 14 day return policy so i doubt they will take one back, but really wouldnt want to if they will be okay. I really wanted a mated pair

NewFishFiend said:

Byron, ive had these lovely ladies for about a month now. When i bought them i sat at the tank they were in for 20 minutes and swore i had a pair. I use a local mom and pop store and the sales lady was actually pretty knowledgeable about sexing them but also said it is hard without their breeding tubes out. We did our best but ended up with 2 females. Will these girls be happy together in the 75 gallon? The fish store has a 14 day return policy so i doubt they will take one back, but really wouldnt want to if they will be okay. I really wanted a mated pair

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I still can't say they are both females, but you are there to observe them so perhaps they are. How are they interacting? If they get along, no harm done there, though without a male there won't be any spawning, if that is desired.

Byron, they tend to pretty much ignore each other, each picking at the substrate on opposite sides of the tank and avoiding the angelfish lol.

As far as spawning, I'm not really interested in raising fry, I just wanted them to be happy and had read they needed to be in a bonded pair . My angelfish would just eat the babies anyway lol.

I'm curious if since my females are both obviously ready to spawn, if they would be more receptive to taking a male that maybe they wouldn't have bonded with if he wasn't introduced when she was fertile. My train of thought being that nature would take over and the need to spawn would push them to more readily accept a male. Maybe this would be the right time to introduce a male? I think I will give it a try. Worse comes to worse I'll take him out and put him in the snail tank by himself.

NewFishFiend said:

Byron, they tend to pretty much ignore each other, each picking at the substrate on opposite sides of the tank and avoiding the angelfish lol.

As far as spawning, I'm not really interested in raising fry, I just wanted them to be happy and had read they needed to be in a bonded pair . My angelfish would just eat the babies anyway lol.

I'm curious if since my females are both obviously ready to spawn, if they would be more receptive to taking a male that maybe they wouldn't have bonded with if he wasn't introduced when she was fertile. My train of thought being that nature would take over and the need to spawn would push them to more readily accept a male. Maybe this would be the right time to introduce a male? I think I will give it a try. Worse comes to worse I'll take him out and put him in the snail tank by himself.

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If they are getting along, I would not rock the boat.

I have a male that is nearing five years, which is past its normal lifespan. Three years ago I found some lovely Bolivians and got him a female, before i understood what bonded pair means for these fish. He was/is in a 5-foot tank. They got together and spawned within a couple days, but she behaved very strange, driving him into the plants with considerable anger. Eggs got eaten at night by the nocturnal corys. Their interaction after was on and off. A couple weeks later, another spawning. This time the male got funny, not letting her near the clutch of eggs. Eggs eaten again by corys at night. Third spawning, the Rams seemed more "normal," they worked together at guarding, eggs hatched this time, and fry lasted maybe 3 days before something got them at night. Fourth spawning, same thing. Then two days later, female is dead; the male killed her. Obviously, this was not a bonded pair.

hmmmm, at what age do they start this bonding? My females were definetly juveniles when I bought them, and I feel like they have just came into sexual maturity. They choose mates before sexually maturing? Believe me, I am not questioning your judgement, I am just curious and want to learn more about these beautiful fish.

NewFishFiend said:

hmmmm, at what age do they start this bonding? My females were definetly juveniles when I bought them, and I feel like they have just came into sexual maturity. They choose mates before sexually maturing? Believe me, I am not questioning your judgement, I am just curious and want to learn more about these beautiful fish.

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I've no idea as to the exact age when any of this occurs. I have, with the one exception already described, only kept this fish as a lone fish in the community tank. The profile explains why this works so well. If I were to get more than one, I would observe the fish in the store tank for 15-30 minutes, and find a bonded pair. There is a risk doing anything else, just be awae of that. You seem to have two compatible fish, which is not always the case; other members have had females fight each other. Consider yourself lucky. But of course, there is still the possibility that you do have a pair.

Byron said:

I've no idea as to the exact age when any of this occurs. I have, with the one exception already described, only kept this fish as a lone fish in the community tank. The profile explains why this works so well. If I were to get more than one, I would observe the fish in the store tank for 15-30 minutes, and find a bonded pair. There is a risk doing anything else, just be awae of that. You seem to have two compatible fish, which is not always the case; other members have had females fight each other. Consider yourself lucky. But of course, there is still the possibility that you do have a pair.

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Well they are both definitely females. I went to an aquaintences house who actually has a ram pair just so i could observe their breeding tubes. Both of mine are females. As long as they get along i will let them be, but this person has been raising rams for awhile ( i had no idea! Someone i went to high school with and just realized they r fishkeepers) and said i should pick up and male and then she would take the unbonded female.

NewFishFiend said:

Well they are both definitely females. I went to an aquaintences house who actually has a ram pair just so i could observe their breeding tubes. Both of mine are females. As long as they get along i will let them be, but this person has been raising rams for awhile ( i had no idea! Someone i went to high school with and just realized they r fishkeepers) and said i should pick up and male and then she would take the unbonded female.

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That could work. At least you have a "home" for whichever fish turns out to be a problem. Or they may all be fine together. Fish can be individual; I can only suggest the normal, not the possible.

I have had a pair of Bolivian Rams for a couple of years now that were babies when I got them. Now that they are adults, the male has a much larger head than the female is usually more colorful. The interaction is fascinating to watch. They gently peck at each other and the male likes to escort the female around the tank in a very protective manner. The interesting thing is that when I

Mcomp, im thinking you got cut off there.

As of right now my females are larger than any of the males ive seen at the lfs. I really dont want to push anything so i havent quite decided what to do. My friend would give the female a good home. She said she thinking her laying female is about past her prime so she would love to get a new healthy female. I think what she does is put 4-5 females in with 1 unbonded male at a time and let them pair off that way.

NewFishFiend said:

Mcomp, im thinking you got cut off there.

As of right now my females are larger than any of the males ive seen at the lfs. I really dont want to push anything so i havent quite decided what to do. My friend would give the female a good home. She said she thinking her laying female is about past her prime so she would love to get a new healthy female. I think what she does is put 4-5 females in with 1 unbonded male at a time and let them pair off that way.

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That's another option, if you can afford to buy several fish, and assuming you have somewhere to put them, unless the tank is huge. Aquarists frequently do angelfish the same way if the intention is to spawn them successfully.