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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have 2 approx. 3" angels in a 45 gal. Normally they greet me in the morning anxiously awaiting their breakfast. Upon feeding I noticed 1 only ate a few pieces and the other didn't seem interested at all. As a test I threw a cube of frozen blood worms in the tank when I got home from work. This normally incites a feeding frenzy yet once again 1 ate a little and the other nothing. All the other fish (rummynose, cardinals, gb ram) are fine, eating with no problem. I feed them Ocean Nutrition Comm. Formula Flakes once a day and occasional frozenblood worms. What could be the problem??? Please help Im extremely worried :-(
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
1. Size of tank? 45 gallon

2. Water parameters
a. Ammonia? 0
b. Nitrite? N/A
c. Nitrate?N/A
d. pH, KH and GH? ph 7.2
e. Test kit? API

3. Temperature? 82 F

4. FW (fresh water) or BW (brackish)? FW

5. How long the aquarium has been set up? 7+ years

6. What fish do you have? How many are in your tank? How big are they? How long have you had them? 2 3" angels, 6 rummynose, 4 cardinals, 1 gb ram, 3 green corys, 1 6' Royal Pleco. Ive had most for a few years the angels are around 5 months old

7. Were the fish placed under quarantine period (minus the first batch from the point wherein the tank is ready to accommodate the inhabitants)? No

8. a. Any live plants? Fake plants? Fake well planted
b. Sand, gravel, barebottom? natural gravel
c. Rocks, woods, fancy decors? Any hollow decors? Natural driftwood 2 large pieces, 3 small pieces, some small decorative rocks

9. a. Filtration? 2 Penguin 200's, sponge filter attached to a power head
b. Heater? eheim jager

10. a. Lighting schedule? What lights are used? around 11 hrs, solarmax he with moon lighting
b. Any sunlight exposure? How long? No

11. a. Water change schedule? 1x weekly, last change done last Thursday
b. Volume of water changed? 20-30%
c. Well water, tap water, RO water? tap water
d. Water conditioner used? API water conditioner
e. Frequency of gravel/sand (if any) vacuumed? light vacuuming weekly with heavier vacuuming biweekly

12. Foods? Ocean Nutrition Community Flake, Hikari Frozen bloodworms
How often are they fed? Flakes 1x daily, bloodworms maybe every 2 weeks as a treat

13. a. Any abnormal signs/symptoms? Angels seem less active than usual and not eating
b. Appearance of poop? N/A
c. Appearance of gills? Ok

14. a. Have you treated your fish ahead of diagnosis? No
b. What meds were used? None

15. Insert photos of fish in question and full tank shot if necessary.


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Internal protizoans, common with angels & discus, as well as other cichlids.

Put the angel in a quar tank, I usually use a 10 gallon. Increase the temp over a day or so to 90-94F. Treat daily with 40 mg/gallon metronidazole, with 50% water changes daily. If the fish isn't eating, don't feed for the first 3 days. After 3 days, get some frozen brine shrimp. Take a portion about the size of a few match heads, and sprinkle on some metro. You have to eyeball this one, make the shrimp look kind of like a tiny powdered donut. Once it thaws, mix it in & feed. Sometimes they still don't eat for a few days, but once they start to mouth the food & spit it out, the meds seem to get in their system real good. Continue medicating the water & food for 7-10 days.

Metronidazole is sold as Metroplex, flagyl, het-a-mit, and a few other names I can't recall offhand, used to treat hexamita & hole in the head. They usually suggest 20mg/gallon, this often isn't enough. Metro deteriorates in 8 hours, so you could do twice daily water changes. I've done this on the weekends when I have time.

I've also added epsom salt while using metro, this helps with any constipation issues, cleans out the digestive tract. I start with 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water, increasing by 1 teaspoon daily for 2 more days to bring it up to 3 teaspoons per gallon. You will have to adjust how much you use when doing water changes. You may want to give this a try.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ive never set up a quarantine tank before. Isnt cycling an issue? I could use water from the 45 gal and maybe move the sponge filter into the quarantine tank to help. Then treat as you suggested. This will have to wait till tomorrow night though. Im gonna feed as usual tomorrow morn and see how they act. I hope to fix this as I do not want to lose them.
 

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Less activity/hiding, and slow/no eating are 2 signs, 3rd would be whitish stringy feces. These protizoans are considered a normal part of the digestive flora in many fish, when the fish is stressed the natural immune response decreases. The immune response usually keeps them in check, add some stress, and they become an issue.

Angels hit about dime body size at 2 months of age, nickel to quarter is closer to 3 months. They tend to start maturing & pairing off around 9 months of age, so you may have a bit of sparring, some territorial issues, or pairing in the near future. These things cause stress. This is so common with angels that metro is one of the few meds I consistently keep on hand. I alternate between breeding angels & buying overstock from other breeders, it's not unusual for me to have several hundred angels in the fishroom, or get in a few hundred. I have a 10 gallon that's set up for this, and this is exactly what I do if I notice slow to eat hiding angels.

***Edit To Add***

With 50% daily water changes cycling will not be an issue, that sponge should be more than enough. Make sure you do have plenty of surface motion, warmer water holds less O2.
 

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Ive never set up a quarantine tank before. Isnt cycling an issue? I could use water from the 45 gal and maybe move the sponge filter into the quarantine tank to help. Then treat as you suggested. This will have to wait till tomorrow night though. Im gonna feed as usual tomorrow morn and see how they act. I hope to fix this as I do not want to lose them.

It's important for a quarantine tank to be cycled. My quarantine tanks run 24/7, even when there are no fish in them. The tanks can be left fishless for months and not lose the cycle. Not everyone has the space for that though, and such people will do one of two things. They will either run their quarantine filter on their main tank and move it over when needed, or they have some media stashed in the main tanks filter which can be moved into the quarantine tank filter. In both cases, the tank can be set up as needed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
So stress is what causes this? That makes perfect sense actually. The 2 angels get along fine. In fact I already believe they are a pair. There stress comes in the form of my Blue Ram. Hes a little jerk and likes to chase and challenge the angels especially the black angel who I believe to be a male. Hes the one that has stopped eating completely. The other still picks but barely. So now my question is: If I do the recommended treatment will this be a permanent fix? Or will it happen again? My other concern is the rams reaction when I reintroduce the angels back into the tank. Im worried he will be more aggressive towards them. So I guess this means saying bye to the ram? I like the ram, I love my angels.
 

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While nothing is guaranteed, I can't recall having to treat the same fish twice for this. What you can do with the ram is pull him before you put the angels back in, give him some time away for a day or 2 in the med tank. This will give the angels time to settle back in, and when reintroduced he will be the new guy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
While nothing is guaranteed, I can't recall having to treat the same fish twice for this. What you can do with the ram is pull him before you put the angels back in, give him some time away for a day or 2 in the med tank. This will give the angels time to settle back in, and when reintroduced he will be the new guy.
So say I do this. If the ram goes back to bullying the angels their symptoms shouldnt come back?
 

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If they are a pair & get to spawning the ram will be in for a rude awakening. Like I said, no guarantees, if the ram gets out of line either a divider or another tank.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I set up a 10 gal. hospital tank. I filled it with 75% tank water and 25% fresh tap. Im using the sponge filter from the 45 along with a large air stone for as much aeration as possible. Its been running for 2 days and I finally introduced the angels this morning. They seem ok so far. Im treating with Metronidazole as suggested. Fingers crossed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Day 3. The Gold Angels doing well, eating with no problem. The Black one however isnt. Im getting worried cuz its been almost a week since hes eaten. How long can a fish survive without eating? I bought Focus with hopes that it will help. Was I wrong?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Update: The angels are back in the 45 gallon and seem to be doing well. I tried giving the ram the benefit of the doubt but as suspected he started attacking them (mainly the black one) almost immediately, so hes taking a timeout in the hospital tank. Im debating what to do with him. I have an empty 14 gal that Im gonna be setting up soon, might put him in there. If not depending on how he acts when reintroduced into the 45, he may be going bye bye. Ive caught him chasing my tetras a few times so he may just be a bad egg.
 
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