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766 Posts
Hello there various moderators and staff that will take the time to sit and read what I have to bring to the table. I would like to thank each and every one of you in advance for taking the time to read and listen. Before I explore my fundamental concerns I would like to take the time to explain my own mindset when it comes to the purpose of a forum like Tropical Fish Keeping.com
To me, Tropical Fish Keeping is and has been up until recently a better alternative to other currently existing sites for fish keeping. It's purpose is (or at least seems to be) to further knowledge when it comes to the Fish Keeping hobby. In doing so we educate , inform, explore, discuss...and to some point debate. The end result is a knowledgeable atmosphere where people can come to ask important questions, and gain insightful answers.
With this mindset established it may explain why I take it very seriously that the information we give to people is as accurate as it can be. In order to be able to give accurate information we have to be willing to learn, explore, discuss, and evolve our way of thinking as new information comes to light. We also have to be willing to hold back when we are not so well educated so that we can restrain from giving improper information. Finally we must also be wary of our own bias, and caution ourselves against giving advice solely on what works for us. Our bias and personal preferences have no place when giving proper advice to new and older members.
The above standards are something that mods and users should hold themselves to. Unfortunately we cannot always expect the users to hold themselves to such standards. This is why regrettably, it becomes necessary to remove/stifle opinions of those who are posting counter-productively. It is at this point that we get to some of the fundamental problems going on in this forum.
We have people who are running around giving bad advice. To some point there is little you can do until it gets to the point that a user is being truly problematic. This I understand. We have experienced members who are capable of going in to address incorrect information and as such under normal circumstances this is not an issue. However lately it has been a growing trend that moderators themselves are the ones giving improper information. This is problematic as their status as moderators complicates the issues.
Here on the fish forums “status” plays an enormous role. Users “trust” you when you are a mod. They think that you are a mod for a good reason. The thing is, everything you say, and everything your fellow mods do in respect to what you say has an enormous impact. The gravity of the situation is heavy because people trust you. If you are the one giving bad advice, that's going to cost someone money. That might kill someone's fish. That may destroy someone's tank. That may prematurely end someone's interest completely in the hobby. So if you are a mod you have a big responsibility to hold yourself to the higher standards.
For the most part many mods here do just that. It concerns me that two mods in particular are prone to posting based on personal bias, and personal preference. It gets worse because they frequently belittle experienced members. They may not see it as belittling. Perhaps those of you reading also do no see it that way.
It is the only thing I can call it. You belittle your experienced members and the users side with you and other mods side with you. What chance do experienced members stand when the people who insist on giving poor information are mods with other mods on their sides? That's how it feels a lot. That's how it felt in a recent thread.
A user has a large tank. It is a 180 gallon tank. He has a filter rated for 160 gallons. It is a canister. He is asking about getting a second canister. Now, if this were a thread on heaters and someone had a 180 gallon tank and had one heater...and wanted to get a second one what would most of you say? You'd tell him to get it of course! For some strange reason in this thread, the first mod post is to post against logic itself. Byron tells the person “No, stick with what you have”.
That is bad advice. Byron you had no business telling a person willing to spend the money on a back up and second filter not to get one. You wouldn't do that to someone buying a second heater. Further discussion where I myself took the time to explain why telling him to not get something supplemental was pointless.
At the end of the day while I was very much right on the ball with my points, I am against two mods, and all the mods agreeing with one mod publicly. What I have to say probably means little when the OP sees that mods are siding against counter advice. What Byron said at the beginning defies all logic.
My arguments were not based on preference. They were not based on bias. I cannot say the same for Byron. It seems like it might be preference. Who knows. Maybe Byron you really don't understand these things about larger tanks, and you are spoiled with having planted tanks mature as they are. This is a common disconnect that at the time I don't feel like exploring. I need to move on.
Before I get into this next concern let me explain my own history here. With tanks I have owned 5 gallons, 10 gallons, 20 gallons long, 20 gallons tall, 50 gallons, 75 gallons, 80 gallons, 90 gallons, and the biggest yet my 150 gallon tank. Currently I run the 150, the 80, the 90, and the 20. I've handled different model heaters, different model air pumps, hang on back filters, running no filter, running an air-stone and no filter, internal filters, sponge filters on air machines, sponge filter via power head, and canisters. I've dealt with fake plants, live plants, gravel...and sand.
I try to not advise a person based on my personal preferences. Instead I seek to try to understand a person's situation and give them options. What I prefer does not matter. For some reason the same does not apply to Abbeysdad. No mod should be constantly pugging their personal preference over what is appropriate for the situation.
I remember once someone said you have tunnel vision AD. Sometimes it really does appear you do. You get fixated on one thing to the point you ignore all other possibilities and in doing so blow off experienced members. The dismissive attitude faced with real life experience is concerning. I shouldn't have to explain why a filter that cannot start once it runs dry isn't the end all solution to everything. I shouldn't have to get into why even regular play sand can wreck havoc on a system like what HOB's thrive on. When you or Byron sit and go “Well it's not an issue unless blah blah blah”...you know what it does to me? It makes me unwelcome. What you are doing is literally calling me a liar. You know how that feels? It makes me feel like just leaving all together or at least not posting at all. What point is there to post if your actual experience makes you a liar because some mod doesn't believe it can happen what ever “It” is.
I'm not the only one who feels this way. This kind of behavior really needs to change. Stop using your own personal bias and preferences to color your advise. Stop blowing off your fellow experienced members and hold yourself to higher standards.
To me, Tropical Fish Keeping is and has been up until recently a better alternative to other currently existing sites for fish keeping. It's purpose is (or at least seems to be) to further knowledge when it comes to the Fish Keeping hobby. In doing so we educate , inform, explore, discuss...and to some point debate. The end result is a knowledgeable atmosphere where people can come to ask important questions, and gain insightful answers.
With this mindset established it may explain why I take it very seriously that the information we give to people is as accurate as it can be. In order to be able to give accurate information we have to be willing to learn, explore, discuss, and evolve our way of thinking as new information comes to light. We also have to be willing to hold back when we are not so well educated so that we can restrain from giving improper information. Finally we must also be wary of our own bias, and caution ourselves against giving advice solely on what works for us. Our bias and personal preferences have no place when giving proper advice to new and older members.
The above standards are something that mods and users should hold themselves to. Unfortunately we cannot always expect the users to hold themselves to such standards. This is why regrettably, it becomes necessary to remove/stifle opinions of those who are posting counter-productively. It is at this point that we get to some of the fundamental problems going on in this forum.
We have people who are running around giving bad advice. To some point there is little you can do until it gets to the point that a user is being truly problematic. This I understand. We have experienced members who are capable of going in to address incorrect information and as such under normal circumstances this is not an issue. However lately it has been a growing trend that moderators themselves are the ones giving improper information. This is problematic as their status as moderators complicates the issues.
Here on the fish forums “status” plays an enormous role. Users “trust” you when you are a mod. They think that you are a mod for a good reason. The thing is, everything you say, and everything your fellow mods do in respect to what you say has an enormous impact. The gravity of the situation is heavy because people trust you. If you are the one giving bad advice, that's going to cost someone money. That might kill someone's fish. That may destroy someone's tank. That may prematurely end someone's interest completely in the hobby. So if you are a mod you have a big responsibility to hold yourself to the higher standards.
For the most part many mods here do just that. It concerns me that two mods in particular are prone to posting based on personal bias, and personal preference. It gets worse because they frequently belittle experienced members. They may not see it as belittling. Perhaps those of you reading also do no see it that way.
It is the only thing I can call it. You belittle your experienced members and the users side with you and other mods side with you. What chance do experienced members stand when the people who insist on giving poor information are mods with other mods on their sides? That's how it feels a lot. That's how it felt in a recent thread.
A user has a large tank. It is a 180 gallon tank. He has a filter rated for 160 gallons. It is a canister. He is asking about getting a second canister. Now, if this were a thread on heaters and someone had a 180 gallon tank and had one heater...and wanted to get a second one what would most of you say? You'd tell him to get it of course! For some strange reason in this thread, the first mod post is to post against logic itself. Byron tells the person “No, stick with what you have”.
That is bad advice. Byron you had no business telling a person willing to spend the money on a back up and second filter not to get one. You wouldn't do that to someone buying a second heater. Further discussion where I myself took the time to explain why telling him to not get something supplemental was pointless.
At the end of the day while I was very much right on the ball with my points, I am against two mods, and all the mods agreeing with one mod publicly. What I have to say probably means little when the OP sees that mods are siding against counter advice. What Byron said at the beginning defies all logic.
My arguments were not based on preference. They were not based on bias. I cannot say the same for Byron. It seems like it might be preference. Who knows. Maybe Byron you really don't understand these things about larger tanks, and you are spoiled with having planted tanks mature as they are. This is a common disconnect that at the time I don't feel like exploring. I need to move on.
Before I get into this next concern let me explain my own history here. With tanks I have owned 5 gallons, 10 gallons, 20 gallons long, 20 gallons tall, 50 gallons, 75 gallons, 80 gallons, 90 gallons, and the biggest yet my 150 gallon tank. Currently I run the 150, the 80, the 90, and the 20. I've handled different model heaters, different model air pumps, hang on back filters, running no filter, running an air-stone and no filter, internal filters, sponge filters on air machines, sponge filter via power head, and canisters. I've dealt with fake plants, live plants, gravel...and sand.
I try to not advise a person based on my personal preferences. Instead I seek to try to understand a person's situation and give them options. What I prefer does not matter. For some reason the same does not apply to Abbeysdad. No mod should be constantly pugging their personal preference over what is appropriate for the situation.
I remember once someone said you have tunnel vision AD. Sometimes it really does appear you do. You get fixated on one thing to the point you ignore all other possibilities and in doing so blow off experienced members. The dismissive attitude faced with real life experience is concerning. I shouldn't have to explain why a filter that cannot start once it runs dry isn't the end all solution to everything. I shouldn't have to get into why even regular play sand can wreck havoc on a system like what HOB's thrive on. When you or Byron sit and go “Well it's not an issue unless blah blah blah”...you know what it does to me? It makes me unwelcome. What you are doing is literally calling me a liar. You know how that feels? It makes me feel like just leaving all together or at least not posting at all. What point is there to post if your actual experience makes you a liar because some mod doesn't believe it can happen what ever “It” is.
I'm not the only one who feels this way. This kind of behavior really needs to change. Stop using your own personal bias and preferences to color your advise. Stop blowing off your fellow experienced members and hold yourself to higher standards.
