[Flear]

inspired by another post
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/beginner-freshwater-aquarium/ph-questions-324297/page2/
post #11

what's going on that makes aging water ineffective at removing toxin (the whole reason for aging the water)

i could guess that water left to sit (long enough) should develop the same bacteria we depend on in our cycled tanks to reduce ammonia.

guessing is over, ... what is going on that makes this ineffective ?

 

[crzy2u]

Aging water removes chlorine and other minerals that might be in your tap.
However, it does not remove chloramine, which won't evaporate out of your water not matter how long you wait.

 

[Flear]

ya, i've heard boiling water can remove chlorine in about an hour
but as they tested chloromine, boiling for 26 hours i think (or 29 hours to remove this) - nasty stuff

 

[crzy2u]

ya, i've heard boiling water can remove chlorine in about an hour
but as they tested chloromine, boiling for 26 hours i think (or 29 hours to remove this) - nasty stuff

Boiling it can remove it but not very effectively. And, as you said it takes a very long time. It's much easier to get a dechlorinator that removes both chlorine and chloramines. Just a couple teaspoons and you're done.

 

[angelcraze]

inspired by another post
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/beginner-freshwater-aquarium/ph-questions-324297/page2/
post #11

what's going on that makes aging water ineffective at removing toxin (the whole reason for aging the water)

i could guess that water left to sit (long enough) should develop the same bacteria we depend on in our cycled tanks to reduce ammonia.

guessing is over, ... what is going on that makes this ineffective ?

Guess it would develop beneficial bacteria, if left to sit long enough, and maybe keeping the bacteria fed by adding more ammonia in some form, (fish food, fish poop) and adding some sort of surface for the BB to adhere to (filter floss) once the cycle is completed. Just like our cycled aquariums.

But what happens with water where chloramine is added by your municipality is the chlorine evaporates, and ammonia is set free as chloramine is a bond of both chlorine and ammonia.

A water conditioner that removes chlorine and ammonia would be much more efficient at removing all of the toxins. If water is left to sit for 24 hours, than just ammonia.

This is not to say that aging water is not beneficial, or the whole reason for aging your water. It's just suited better as a method to off-gas the water, so that you avoid PH fluctuations in your tank as Co2 off-gasses, and PH climbs.

 

[rickey]

ya, i've heard boiling water can remove chlorine in about an hour
but as they tested chloromine, boiling for 26 hours i think (or 29 hours to remove this) - nasty stuff

As soon as water start to boil(the first bubble) the chlorine is long gone, gassed off
That why everyone started using chloramines it's very stable.
Chlorine reacts with naturally present humic acids, amino acids, and other natural organic matter, as well as iodide and bromide ions, Disinfection byproducts (DBP) such as the trihalomethanes (THMs), haloacetic acids (HAAs), and chlorite which are regulated by the EPA, and unregulated DBP such as halonitromethanes, haloacetonitriles, haloamides, halofuranones, iodo-acids, nitrosamines, are also present, these are thing we don't want in the water. Chloramines as you know is Chlorine bound up with Ammonia so they don't have the DBP problems associated with Chlorine. With chloramines we can better control the end product. Chloramines in, chloramines out, only becomes a issue if your a fish keeper or a kidney patient on dialysis.

R

 

[Flear]

i first stumbled across this for chloromine a long time ago
Chloramine Facts - Citizens Concerned About Chloramine (CCAC)

this is the scariest point to me
-Alternative disinfectants to chlorine, including chloramine, have not been studied for their health effects.
especially as they're putting this stuff in all of our homes

i guess that's where history repeats itself, ... done so many similar things in the past

 

[angelcraze]

"Chloramine cannot be removed by boiling, distilling, or by standing uncovered."

Flear,
I read this in the article you stumbled on a long time ago, didn't know where they tested that it could be removed by boiling for 29 hours. This test was done after 2006? It's hard, you never know what to and what not to believe on the internet.

 

[Austin]

We're all guinea pigs for a whole host of chemicals in our food and water. It's fun stuff. Are you sure they haven't studied chloramines at all? I would think they'd do some tests, but whether they tested them extensively enough to warrant putting it in our drinking water is the question.

Anyways, I've taken a few chemistry courses but that's all. However, I wouldn't see how aging water could do much of anything to make it better. Some dissolved gases may escape but that's all I can imagine.

 

[beaslbob]

Aging water removes chlorine and other minerals that might be in your tap.
However, it does not remove chloramine, which won't evaporate out of your water not matter how long you wait.

Not to pick on this particulas poster but this information while very common is also totally incorrect.

Sure chlorimine is a liquid not a gas and does hang around longer then chlorine gas.

but the gas dissapates very very rapidily like in the time it takes to pour in in the tank.

That does not mean the chlorimine stays in the tank forever.

Water authorities who switched to chlorimine reported problem with algae building up in the distribution system because the chlorimine broke down to ammonia feeding the same algae and bacteria we have in our tanks. So much so that they had to start daily flushing of those systems.

And Water authorities also report that most if not all the chlorimine will be broken down by the time it arrives at your house.


Sure I take precautions like aging my water in tank with plants for a week before adding fish.

And not doing scheduled water changes and just replacing evaporative losses.

But the assertion that chlorimine stays in your tank for ever and will kill any fish you add at any time is flat out false.

still just my .02

 

[crzy2u]

Not to pick on this particulas poster but this information while very common is also totally incorrect.

Sure chlorimine is a liquid not a gas and does hang around longer then chlorine gas.

but the gas dissapates very very rapidily like in the time it takes to pour in in the tank.

That does not mean the chlorimine stays in the tank forever.

Water authorities who switched to chlorimine reported problem with algae building up in the distribution system because the chlorimine broke down to ammonia feeding the same algae and bacteria we have in our tanks. So much so that they had to start daily flushing of those systems.

And Water authorities also report that most if not all the chlorimine will be broken down by the time it arrives at your house.


Sure I take precautions like aging my water in tank with plants for a week before adding fish.

And not doing scheduled water changes and just replacing evaporative losses.

But the assertion that chlorimine stays in your tank for ever and will kill any fish you add at any time is flat out false.

still just my .02

It's interesting that you say that. "Chloramines take a very very long time to go away." & "Chloramines never go away unless you use chemicals." is the only thing I've ever heard?
Can you tell me how long exactly it takes to dissipate? And where you've gotten this information?

 

[Austin]

"Chloramines provide long-lasting protection as they do not break down quickly in water pipes." -EPA

 

[rickey]

Boy didn't this start a snow storm.
I'll pull the data there are studies pro and con and a lot of it
Do I like chloramine not really big fan, but a lot better than I like Cholera

Rick

 

[Flear]

but for all the additives they put in the water to get to our homes, ... all the things they are trying to kill off (the reason for those additives)

what about starvation ?
all the bacterial infections we could be subjected to, they all need nutrients to survive and reproduce.

raises a different question, ... we can add toxins (and hope they are not capable of breaking down into sufficient building blocks for life (bacteria to survive), ... or starve them (not done) just ensuring what goes through the pipes could never have at least one key nutrient for things to survive (what we're worried about anyway)

i'm not in charge of finances or health or anything else for those systems, ... but a poison is a poison, that much is simple and true, why not explore other alternatives.

our alternatives, find a way to remove the poisons from our water before it goes into our tanks.

where it raises other questions, i'm not gutsy enough to try, ... but i would guess our aquarium water would be safe to drink, just queezy about as this isn't standard practice, ... and it's beyond full of life.

 

[rickey]

MONEY! We are dealing with millions of miles of pipe that make up an antiquated distribution system. You can very the best filters and treatment processes available but if you can get the product to the customer you screwed.

Rick

 

[beaslbob]

It's interesting that you say that. "Chloramines take a very very long time to go away." & "Chloramines never go away unless you use chemicals." is the only thing I've ever heard?
Can you tell me how long exactly it takes to dissipate? And where you've gotten this information?

Basically by experience. Never had any signs of stress using the methods in the link in my Sig
Posted via Mobile Device