[melbadog1]

Currently, I have two angels (about 2" bodies) in a 30g tank with a school of peppered cory cats.

I'm in the process of establishing a new 75g tank. I would eventually like to move the angels into the new tank. I would like to have more angelfish in the new tank. Is it possible/wise to add/introduce new angelfish? What's the best way to transition? I was thinking it would be best to get the new tank totally cycled and stocked with new fish before adding the current angels? Am I better off to get smaller angels, or try to stick to similarly sized angels?

 

[Sylverclaws]

Usually it's best to keep these guys in odd numbers. Five with your cories in a 75 gallon would probably be just fine.

As for adding new with the old ones...you will want to get them of similar size to your current angels. Getting smaller ones...well, they may get bullied or killed, getting bigger ones may result in your current ones being bullied or killed.


Ahhh, let's see. I love angles, but I've personally never kept them, though I would love some of the yellow marbled ones some day.
My aunt and a family friend did and do though. Our family used to keep angels in her 200 gal(until one day she went on vacation for two weeks and they had babies and did not eat them...she ended up with a few hundred angels and decided enough was enough with the fish keeping LOL). She never had any major issues adding new ones in aside from some curiosity nips and bumps that weren't serious, however she said there is a chance there will be since they can get territorial. So it may be better to cycle it and add them at the same time to the new tank. Best first to QT any newbies in another tank though! I hope you have one. This way, not only will the QT keep them from getting sick, but dropping them all into new territory at once could keep chances if battle down.

They're not too bad, it depends on how territorial yours are, how aggressive, and how big. Older ones may not accept newbies on their turf, others may simply not care.

Personally I would suggest three new ones, this way your two cannot gang up on one or two more easily. Considering their size and risk of aggression, I wouldn't put anymore in a 75 gal.

 

[melbadog1]

Interesting. I'd been told to keep them in even numbers, so if they paired off, there wouldn't be a single "odd man out". I do have other tanks, how long do you recommend QTing them? Thank you for your response! I'm very new to this and trying to learn!

 

[Tolak]

Stocking at 10 gallons per adult angel you could get 7-8 in there. Odd or even numbers don't matter past 3, fish can't count real good. Even with 5 you have a better than 90% chance of getting a pair, their behavior & if you want to get into breeding angels will direct you from there. Do go with similar size angels, try to scape it so there is a sort of natural divider effect, this will help when a pair forms.

Keep a divider or spare tank handy, angels are cichlids and can have aggression issues. With a little switchery I was able to keep 2 pairs & 3 unpaired fish in a 65, I've also had pairs that try to claim an entire 55 gallon.

I'd quar for at least 4 weeks, pull any angels out of the 75, rearrange the deco's, then add them all back in. Angels key territory off of objects in the tank, move the objects around & there's no territory. This starts them all off at the same point as far as territory is concerned.

 

[Sylverclaws]

Interesting. I'd been told to keep them in even numbers, so if they paired off, there wouldn't be a single "odd man out". I do have other tanks, how long do you recommend QTing them? Thank you for your response! I'm very new to this and trying to learn!

Since the info I gave was from a friend who kept angels, I do not know that QT part, I'd go with Tolak on his info.
On the odd numbers, it was to keep them from being in even battles that raged on. But that's as far as my knowledge goes on that as well, I've never kept them and so have no personal advice to offer, though I am quite interested in them.

As for QTing...that depends on the fish, I just don't know this one. For most fish it's two weeks to a month as a minimum and for many experienced keepers that's not considered enough time, but some require 1-3 months, and I'm sure some would need more. You'd have to look into that. Do angelfish have any diseases or nasties that can lay dormant for certain periods of time before they show? That's one thing to consider.

 

[Tolak]

Any fish can bring something in, much of it depends on the source of the fish, and how much you trust that source as far as their supplier, cross contamination between tanks & so on. Safest bet is from a breeder who limits any new stock into their fishroom, and is selective as to where that stock comes from. Worst is from a shop, especially a corporate owned shop, real roll of the dice there.

 

[yippee]

I guess I'm the oddball who prefers to add smaller angelfish to more established angels. In my experience when I add (noticeably) smaller angelfish to larger, more established angelfish they seemed to get harassed/initiated less so than angels who are close to the same size/larger. I noticed when adding larger (same size) angelfish to others, they seem to go after the fish worse, as if they have something to "prove" to the new fish. When I added smaller angelfish they would still be interrogated, but seems like it was much less severe. Just a quick "hey this is my tank, back off." Normally the smaller fish will submit and that'll be the end of it (at least until later if they decide to have new territory/dominance debates at a later date). Of course this is all based off of my experience with keeping angels. Also, I always add multiple angels at once, that way the established ones can't single out just one fish - it'll be spread amongst 2 or 3 fish.

In this case, if at all possible, i would add all angelfish (old and new) to the 75 gallon at the same time that way they are all on an even playing field in the new tank.

 

[Tolak]

I've done that with small & large angels as well, it lasts for a while, but not long term, unless you do a pretty large group. After some time you'll have some medium size angels who are the target of larger angels, rough life for the medium guys. In many ways it reminds me of adding a puppy to a group of adult dogs, they have a "puppy card" that lets them get away with things the adults wouldn't tolerate from another adult dog, but as they mature they start to be put in their place.

 

[pop]

HelloTolak:
You pointed out that angel fish mark territory by objects is this a common practice with most fish in the aquarium? Will spatial location also be a factor in defining territory and will water movement as well as such things as temp and amount of light also effect territory definition?
pop

ps
TFK is rendering correctly today what went wrong!? oh i forgot that I updated the browser.

 

[rsskylight04]

I guess I'm the oddball who prefers to add smaller angelfish to more established angels. In my experience when I add (noticeably) smaller angelfish to larger, more established angelfish they seemed to get harassed/initiated less so than angels who are close to the same size/larger. I noticed when adding larger (same size) angelfish to others, they seem to go after the fish worse, as if they have something to "prove" to the new fish. When I added smaller angelfish they would still be interrogated, but seems like it was much less severe. Just a quick "hey this is my tank, back off." Normally the smaller fish will submit and that'll be the end of it (at least until later if they decide to have new territory/dominance debates at a later date). Of course this is all based off of my experience with keeping angels. Also, I always add multiple angels at once, that way the established ones can't single out just one fish - it'll be spread amongst 2 or 3 fish.

In this case, if at all possible, i would add all angelfish (old and new) to the 75 gallon at the same time that way they are all on an even playing field in the new tank.

I agreee.
In my experience south american cichlids will be most aggressive to fish that they see as a threat. New fish with similar body shape and size will fight most and smaller or very different fish will often be left alone. Of course this all depends on the individual personality of the fish in question.
More frequent but smaller feedings also seem to reduce aggression. Also, tank size and decor seems to play a role, bigger tanks with lots of plants and blind spots, caves work best for me.
Good luck!

 

[Sylverclaws]

I agreee.
In my experience south american cichlids will be most aggressive to fish that they see as a threat. New fish with similar body shape and size will fight most and smaller or very different fish will often be left alone. Of course this all depends on the individual personality of the fish in question.

That makes sense, but does it really work with most? I can see why aggressors would go for fish of similar size to remove a threat...however, most territorial creatures will remove youngsters to get rid of future threats to territory and food sources.


Ah, angels. They're so pretty. =( One of these days I have to get myself a trio or something. I have livebearers in my 55 now though, I don't think that'd work out. xD

 

[yippee]

That's how i've always stocked angelfish that were not added to the tank at the same time, and it's always worked out for me. Of course, what works for one may not work for all. But that has always worked for me and i continue to stick with that logic.

As an angel grows older it may challenge the older more dominant angel in the tank, but same can be said for any angelfish in the tank regardless of size. Any pecking order is always subject to change at any given time as far as i see.

Personally, i have never had an angelfish try to pick off a smaller angelfish to disarm any threats down the road.

 

[Tolak]

HelloTolak:
You pointed out that angel fish mark territory by objects is this a common practice with most fish in the aquarium? Will spatial location also be a factor in defining territory and will water movement as well as such things as temp and amount of light also effect territory definition?
pop

ps
TFK is rendering correctly today what went wrong!? oh i forgot that I updated the browser.

Hard to say, seeing as there are so many species out there, and only so much time in a lifetime to try different species & get familiar with them. I've done some species of NW cichlids besides angels, apistos & such, cons when I got a pair for a buck, it is pretty common with cichilds from what I've encountered. I don't know if African cichlids are similar in any way, corys could care less about territory. Male plecs can be as nasty as any ciclid, they go more off of the location of a cave or hole they claim as their own, and could care less about anything in between. I'm sure I'm forgetting some species, livebearers & such which really don't get territorial from what I've seen, it's a lot of fish over a lot of years to try to remember!

Spatial location is a strange one, most often it seems to be a certain distance form the area claimed as territory, so in many ways it would be an arc or cone extending from a planned spawning site. All the time, pairs will chose a spawning site where there is some water movement, usually the intake tube of a filter, thanks fish! I don't think the water motion, or lack thereof contributes to territory as much as they find that area the best site to spawn, don't have to fan the eggs as much.

It's real hard to keep one end of a tank cooler, one warmer while still providing decent filtration, never tried that but it is an interesting thought. I don't know if light plays into territory either, though I have noticed they do like to spawn where there is a bit of ambient light at night, easier to keep an eye on the eggs I suppose.