Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources

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-   -   Green Stuff ( ex 0.3 gallon Jar) (https://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/aquarium-photography/green-stuff-ex-0-3-gallon-132079/)

JDM 03-21-2013 06:31 AM

The jar will cycle, filter or not. The bacterial colonies still do their thing and you leaving the jars to sit for a month or two allows this to happen. They won't spike like a large tank... mostly due to the moderate levels of ammonia, but they still cycle.

Jeff.

ao 03-21-2013 11:39 AM

I'm pretty sure that if there are any bacteria, the plants don't give them a chance. as long as we're talking about the nitrogen cycle. lol.
I've never gotten nitrogen readings on these setups. or in my planted tanks. a combination of floaters, and fast growing stems seems to take care of the minimal bioload.

but in an established Jar, the PH settles down too. i dont doubt there is bacteria in te tank, but probably not significant nitrifying bacteria colonies as there is no oxyen flow sent down to them. I think if they didn't need this oxygen, mini cycles wouldn't happen to those people who lose power to their filters.

if we're talking about the plant cycle then sure, fish>waste + CO2 >plants> oxygen> fish

JDM 03-21-2013 11:45 AM

Well, they are still there. It's not like the plants aggressively stalk the ammonia, there is always some floating around and the bacteria do develop, albeit on a much smaller scale. Obviously with so many plants, the point is entirely moot as you don't need them anyway.

Jeff.

ao 03-21-2013 11:47 AM

Lol, speaking of which, I used to arbitrarily remove and replace my filter media with purigen on one of my tanks to remove tannins, then I'd wash the cloggy filter media.. no effect what so ever on readings o_O

ZivaD 03-21-2013 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDM (Post 1499266)
The jar will cycle, filter or not. The bacterial colonies still do their thing and you leaving the jars to sit for a month or two allows this to happen. They won't spike like a large tank... mostly due to the moderate levels of ammonia, but they still cycle.

Jeff.

Agreed - the cycle is not about the presence or lack of a filter - it is about the presence of the "ingredients" in the environment - ie ammonia in the water causing the development of the BB. This happens in any container/tank/etc where there is an ammonia source whether or not it is filtered. In fact, in a cycled aquarium with a filter a good portion of the BB population is maintained outside of the filter housing on the hardscape within the contianer/tank.

ao 03-21-2013 12:46 PM

what cycle are we talking about? I'm assuming bacteria based nitrogen cycle?

The tank is cycled in the sense that the plants eat the nutrients and has adapted to the jar environment. Oldfishlady calls this the silent cycle.

I never said there isn't presence of bacteria in an aquatic environment. but there definitely isn't enough to cater for a system in a flowless tank....

If some one has cycled a tank with nothing but water in it, no water movement or a light source, I'd like so see that...

I said there was no need to "cycle"(<- note qutation marks) as in bacteria dependent cycle a jar...
I didn't claim that a cycle disn't exit >.>
Posted via Mobile Device

JDM 03-21-2013 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aokashi (Post 1497353)
....
This is how I set up my jars.
they can't be "cycled" as they dont have a filter.
The plants generally need an adjustment period.
....

Sorry, I mistook "can't be cycled" as an implication that it couldn't exist.

An empty cycled tank is non-argument. Who would bother keeping such a tank?

Here I digress....

Point of the matter is that the tank would be, technically, cycled as most understand it. Seeing as these organisms appear as soon as there is ammonia indicates that they are already present in some form and quantity... either that or they get beamed down.... I prefer to believe the former. Adding water with even trace amounts of ammonia will generate them, no ammonia, no new organisms. Also, water is never stationary... unless you freeze it, and some would even argue not even then, although I will admit that there would be no nitrifying going on. You cannot have water still enough that, even in a dark empty tank, it does not move through some convection or even on some molecular agitation level. Whether the organisms need light, I am not certain. Given some of the environments that they exist in I would hazard a guess that they do not, or least not very much at all.... apparently they thrive in canister filters and those are pretty dark.

Keep in mind that these nitrifying organisms, unlike plants, do not need a plethora of nutrients. Pretty much oxygen and ammonia/nitrite. If both are present, they will grow and multiply to the level required to consume those ingredients. Once they exhaust these, they are known to go dormant.... not die off, not quickly anyway.... until such time as the nutrients are present again.

I think referring to the cycling of a tank is mostly a misnomer as the nitrogen cycle is what is referred to anyway, not the act of pushing the organisms to grow, they do that on their own. We just help it along the best we know how to a point where it is stable for our purposes.

The tank is always cycling ammonia to either nitrates or to plant growth. Either method is satisfactory even though both occurr in any planted tank. Taken one step further, the planted tank cycle has the added benefit of going all the way from ammonia to nitrite to nitrate to plant material. The more plants, the less reliance on the organisms.

Jeff.

thekoimaiden 03-21-2013 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aokashi (Post 1498954)
myriophyllum mattogrossensse and mayaca fluitans...
probably spelt them both wrong. lol!

Myrio! I love that plant! Didn't know it could be grown in bowls. I have to try some when the plants in my shrimp tank get large enough to have clippings lol! And don't worry, you spelled that last one close enough that I was able to get a picture of it. Cute little stem! I never knew there were so many types of stem plants.

ao 03-21-2013 04:30 PM

lol Jeff, as detailed as always. I accept and totally agree :) Bacteria doesnt need light, I was propsing a unlit tank so algae cant play a hand on that setup.


@izzy, there are soooo many stem plants out there~
I think I have more than 20 different species XD

Now You made gave me an urge to count and list the all D<

HC, HM, Hygro polysperma, Mayaca, Myrio, Cabomba Furcata, Star grass ( no idea what the latin name is), Staurogen repens, Macranthemum umbrosum, Hygro difformis, Rotala Nanjenshan, Rotala rotundifolia, Rotala Gialai (Gailai? whatever) Ludwigia arcuata, Ludwigia sp. red, Cardamine lyrata, Blyxa Japonica, Egaria Najas, Lindernia rotundifolia, Persocaria Kawa-something, Rotala vietnam, Limno mini vietnam, hydrocotyle triparta... I think that's it?

THAT ^ is what we call collectoritis >.>

JDM 03-21-2013 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aokashi (Post 1503242)
...
I think I have more than 20 different species XD

Now You made gave me an urge to count and list the all D<

HC, HM, Hygro polysperma, Mayaca, Myrio, Cabomba Furcata, Star grass ( no idea what the latin name is), Staurogen repens, Macranthemum umbrosum, Hygro difformis, Rotala Nanjenshan, Rotala rotundifolia, Rotala Gialai (Gailai? whatever) Ludwigia arcuata, Ludwigia sp. red, Cardamine lyrata, Blyxa Japonica, Egaria Najas, Lindernia rotundifolia, Persocaria Kawa-something, Rotala vietnam, Limno mini vietnam, hydrocotyle triparta... I think that's it?

THAT ^ is what we call collectoritis >.>

Quite a list. I actually recognize some of those :shock:

I really should brush up on my Latin one of these days.......

Jeff.


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