The jar will cycle, filter or not. The bacterial colonies still do their thing and you leaving the jars to sit for a month or two allows this to happen. They won't spike like a large tank... mostly due to the moderate levels of ammonia, but they still cycle.
I'm pretty sure that if there are any bacteria, the plants don't give them a chance. as long as we're talking about the nitrogen cycle. lol.
I've never gotten nitrogen readings on these setups. or in my planted tanks. a combination of floaters, and fast growing stems seems to take care of the minimal bioload.
but in an established Jar, the PH settles down too. i dont doubt there is bacteria in te tank, but probably not significant nitrifying bacteria colonies as there is no oxyen flow sent down to them. I think if they didn't need this oxygen, mini cycles wouldn't happen to those people who lose power to their filters.
if we're talking about the plant cycle then sure, fish>waste + CO2 >plants> oxygen> fish
Well, they are still there. It's not like the plants aggressively stalk the ammonia, there is always some floating around and the bacteria do develop, albeit on a much smaller scale. Obviously with so many plants, the point is entirely moot as you don't need them anyway.
Lol, speaking of which, I used to arbitrarily remove and replace my filter media with purigen on one of my tanks to remove tannins, then I'd wash the cloggy filter media.. no effect what so ever on readings o_O
what cycle are we talking about? I'm assuming bacteria based nitrogen cycle?
The tank is cycled in the sense that the plants eat the nutrients and has adapted to the jar environment. Oldfishlady calls this the silent cycle.
I never said there isn't presence of bacteria in an aquatic environment. but there definitely isn't enough to cater for a system in a flowless tank....
If some one has cycled a tank with nothing but water in it, no water movement or a light source, I'd like so see that...
I said there was no need to "cycle"(<- note qutation marks) as in bacteria dependent cycle a jar...
I didn't claim that a cycle disn't exit >.>
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An empty cycled tank is non-argument. Who would bother keeping such a tank?
Here I digress....
Point of the matter is that the tank would be, technically, cycled as most understand it. Seeing as these organisms appear as soon as there is ammonia indicates that they are already present in some form and quantity... either that or they get beamed down.... I prefer to believe the former. Adding water with even trace amounts of ammonia will generate them, no ammonia, no new organisms. Also, water is never stationary... unless you freeze it, and some would even argue not even then, although I will admit that there would be no nitrifying going on. You cannot have water still enough that, even in a dark empty tank, it does not move through some convection or even on some molecular agitation level. Whether the organisms need light, I am not certain. Given some of the environments that they exist in I would hazard a guess that they do not, or least not very much at all.... apparently they thrive in canister filters and those are pretty dark.
Keep in mind that these nitrifying organisms, unlike plants, do not need a plethora of nutrients. Pretty much oxygen and ammonia/nitrite. If both are present, they will grow and multiply to the level required to consume those ingredients. Once they exhaust these, they are known to go dormant.... not die off, not quickly anyway.... until such time as the nutrients are present again.
I think referring to the cycling of a tank is mostly a misnomer as the nitrogen cycle is what is referred to anyway, not the act of pushing the organisms to grow, they do that on their own. We just help it along the best we know how to a point where it is stable for our purposes.
The tank is always cycling ammonia to either nitrates or to plant growth. Either method is satisfactory even though both occurr in any planted tank. Taken one step further, the planted tank cycle has the added benefit of going all the way from ammonia to nitrite to nitrate to plant material. The more plants, the less reliance on the organisms.
lol Jeff, as detailed as always. I accept and totally agree :) Bacteria doesnt need light, I was propsing a unlit tank so algae cant play a hand on that setup.
@izzy, there are soooo many stem plants out there~
I think I have more than 20 different species XD
Now You made gave me an urge to count and list the all D<
HC, HM, Hygro polysperma, Mayaca, Myrio, Cabomba Furcata, Star grass ( no idea what the latin name is), Staurogen repens, Macranthemum umbrosum, Hygro difformis, Rotala Nanjenshan, Rotala rotundifolia, Rotala Gialai (Gailai? whatever) Ludwigia arcuata, Ludwigia sp. red, Cardamine lyrata, Blyxa Japonica, Egaria Najas, Lindernia rotundifolia, Persocaria Kawa-something, Rotala vietnam, Limno mini vietnam, hydrocotyle triparta... I think that's it?
THAT ^ is what we call collectoritis >.>
I really should brush up on my Latin one of these days.......
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