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Sand vs sand vs sand....

7K views 31 replies 17 participants last post by  DKRST 
#1 ·
I picked up a bag of play sand the other day and got around to the cleaning part today... More to test it than too get any appreciable amount cleaned.

What a mess! There is so much fine fine sand in there than I thought there might be. I wouldn't one surprised to get slightly more than half when I am done.

I was planning on mixing play sand with some aquarium sand for colour adjustment, perhaps, but I see why aquarium sand may be a better choice up front even given the cost.

Then there is the pool filter sand... is it much better than play sand? I would think so as it is not supposed to go through the pool equipment.

Sources of sand that I can think of:

Play sand: cheap but messy to clean and finer than is probably good

Sandblasting sand: designed to be gritty so probably rough on fish faces. Loufa anyone?

Pool filter sand: hoping it is cleaner and larger grained

My rock pile: pretty cheap, washed but who knows what else is in it, it came with the 35 year old house... I had to dispose of some old hydro poles... how do you spell PCB anyway?

Aquarium sand: colour choices, clean (relatively), course-ish... Expensive

Off to the local pool supply store to check out their sand. I think one is a client of mine, I'll stop there first. Either that or just wait for the boxing week sale at the LFS. Apparently EVERYTHING in the store is 20 to 50% off ... I wonder if I can get our tank setup and stocked in 5 days...NOT!

Jeff.
 
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#2 ·
Well, the pool store has it, $10 for a 50lb bag... Little overkill but I'm sure sand keeps.

Once I told the lady what I was going to use it for, she mentioned that they went through the same thing many years ago when they had an aquarium. The issue was that the filter sand may be treated and may not be fish safe. Pool safe is not the same as fish safe, obviously. That makes me wonder about the playsand now too. As much as I've seen lots of posts about it, it doesn't necessarily mean that everyone's source has the same quality control or treatment schedule.

She did think she could get the info on it easily as it just comes from the distributor labelled "filter sand".

I have another client that may be able to get me the answer I need... which may not be the one that I want.

Jeff.
 
#3 ·
My rock pile: pretty cheap, washed but who knows what else is in it, it came with the 35 year old house... I had to dispose of some old hydro poles... how do you spell PCB anyway?


Jeff.

Polychlorinated biphenyl

I would not use the rock pile, and a lot of the members here use pool filter sand and play sand. Regardless of your choice rinsing the sand will improve your chances of reduced cloudiness when filling your tank the first time. Play sand will take more rinsing than pool or aquarium sand. Also different brands of sand may be different colors, depending on where the sand came from.

AND Welcome to the forum
 
#4 ·
Point out that some sands made for "Aquariums" are dyed. Some people report with some brands that after a while that dye leaches from the sand. So make sure you research the "aquarium sand" brand you buy before purchase if you go that route.
 
#5 ·
Well, I cleaned the playsand a bit more figuring "how bad can it possibly be?".

I found organic pieces in it. That's not good.

Cheap is cheap.

Jeff.
 
#6 ·
I have pool filter sand in one tank and play sand in another. The pool filter sand required almost zero cleaning, while the play sand took me probably hours to remove all the fines. IMO, the extra time is worth it. The pool filter sand is just glaringly white while the play sand has a better color to it.
 
#7 ·
I have had pool filter sand. Found it to be too "white". I felt like I needed sunglasses to look at my tank. Now it took almost no effort to clean it. I have also had Black Diamond blasting sand. I was told it was fine for fish even bottom dwellers. I LOVED the color of it but it was kinda course. It aslo took A LOT of rinsing!!! I now have play sand in both of my tanks. It does take more cleaning then pool filter sand but its much better sand in my opinion. Looks more natural.
 
#10 ·
Did you have it all in one bucket? Or did you seperate it out?

When I set up the 80 gallon, I separated my 50 pound back into two 30 pound tubs. Then I would lead in one hose to one tub while pouring silt filled water out of the other. I got the overall time down to 30 mins, and once finished has no silt/dust storm upon filling the tank with water.
 
#12 ·
I'm using pool filter sand (left over from replacing the pool filter sand that 'went over the back fence'). This sand was from Wallymart. It is very sandy color but did have a lot of fines that needed a lot of rinsing (outdoor hose and 5g pail method). However, once done, there was no clouding in the tank.

I'm convinced that sand is a better substrate than gravel as sand causes uneaten food and detritus to collect on top rather than fall into the crevices of gravel.
However, very fine grained sands may tightly pack and inhibit root growth for plants.

I can't speak to all the sands that are out there. I have seen course and fine play sands as well as some that were sandy colored and others that we white. It's kind of a crap shoot, because for sand in a sand box it just needs to be sand - the desired sand for an aquarium is very different.

Also, beyond screening for size, I'm not aware of any 'treatments' for pool filter sand.
 
#13 ·
I now have Quikrete Play Sand in five of my tanks, and will have it in another when I reset it prob in Jan. It takes a lot of rinsing, true, but I have never had the problems some others have mentioned.

I rinse about 3 cups in a pail, with 6 or maybe 7 at most rinses. When I dump all the rinsed sand in the tank, I then fill about 5-6 inches of water, then siphon that off. Fill 2/3 of the tank and arrange hardscape and plant. Sometimes I siphon all the water out after planting, but that is it.

You can see this in the photos of my 115g (Amazon Riverscape) and 33g (Lagoon) tanks in the log [click "Aquariums" below my name on the left]. The nice thing about this sand is that it is nearly identical in appearance to the sand in many Amazonian streams, and being multi-coloured (white, black, gray, tan) detritus is invisible.

Byron.
 
#15 · (Edited by Moderator)
I cant belive your tellling people to put cement in their tanks.
Quikrete makes cement based products! You dont ever use a product that comes from a cement plant. Have you ever been to a plant where these products are refined? This is run thru the same mill as pre-mix cement and mortar. I know...I've been in those plants.

I saw this a few hrs ago and I had to sign up and give my opinion.. No wonder why so many people quit the hobby.
 
#14 ·
I must have been lucky when I put play sand in my aquarium. I bought it because it was dirt cheap (or maybe sand cheap:)). I didn't rinse it because I was too lazy and just put it straight into the aquarium. I put a dinner plate in and poured the water on the plate to it from clouding, and the water was perfectly clear.
 
#21 ·
+1

I use 1" of peat moss, 1" play sand, 1" pc select. and wet each layer then level and clean the tank before adding the next. then plants and finally add water poured over a dish

The tank is almost totally clear right from the start. But then I use no mechanical filter or circulation also. Which helps stuff settle.

no rinsing of any of the layers.


my .02
 
#24 ·
I'm not going to get into the soil/peat debate, but just point out a couple facts. Whenever you add any of these natural organic substances to the substrate, you are going to impact the biology and the chemistry of the water. That doesn't mean it is not good, or doesn't work--just that things will be impacted. Far differently from a tank with plain fine gravel or sand.

Redchigh has done soil substrate tanks, so he can add more. I have no intention of using soil, simply because I have yet to find any real benefit (reading the works of those who advocate this method), plus there can be serious negatives. I'm simply not prepared to risk my fish just to hopefully have improved plant growth. And frankly I have to question how "improved" it would be anyway.

Redchigh and I exchanged some PM's on this subject not long ago, and as I mentioned then, I have no desire to put my fish at more risk, which means I would use the 6-month settling-in method with no fish, as this is safer. But I am also not willing to set up a tank for 6 months with no fish. Although, I suppose I could experiment with this in my plant-only QT for new fish, since this tank frequently runs for 6+ months without fish before I may buy new fish.

Anyway, just recognize the issues and be prepared. There are many ways to set up a planted tank; most have pros and cons of some sort. Understand them before trying them.

Byron.
 
#26 ·
... Anyway, just recognize the issues and be prepared. There are many ways to set up a planted tank; most have pros and cons of some sort. Understand them before trying them.

Byron.
I'll probably go for a more known factor... sand, and skip the extra stuff as my daughter will want to get some fish in there quickly and me deciding to experiment won't likely go over well.

I have a funny feeling that we will end up with another tank and it may be plant only, so I will be able to do some experimentation with water and substrates that way. If it remains stable then fish may end up in there.... maybe I'll add shrimp or something.

I'm currently boiling a funky Malaysian driftwood chunk... needed our largest pot.

Jeff.
 
#25 · (Edited)
I have a tank with pfs and a fist full of rainbow gravel for color. I have pics of it in tank and granual size in my profile.

It is a good sand for those that don't have fish with barbles as it is corse, but a good for plants as mine thrive in it. It also works well with my current setup. I will be changing it out when I add Cory Cats, but as of now it works great! Yes it needed to be rinsed. Just because it doesn't cloud water, doesn't mean it doesn't need to be cleaned.
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#27 ·
Ah, heck, may as well share my thoughts on the sand issue!

My favorite sand of all? The black "tahitian moon". Downside = almost as expensive as a bag of "ecocomplete"! Why is it my favorite? My observations that the darker substrate intensifies the darkness of the fishes colors.

Playsand? Yep, I have it in multiple tanks. Upside? Really inexpensive, natural color! Downside, fish colors a little washed out with light substrate, fish "poo" shows up a little too well, but I still like it! Does take some washing, but worth the effort to save the $$.

Pool sand? Haven't used it (yet). Upside not too expensive, easy to find if you have a pool filter you need to replace the sand in! Downside (possibly) - may be very white and microscopically "sharp". Old pool filter sand is usually replaced due the the smoothing and wearing of the sand grains (they compact together, causing channeling in the pool filter). New pool sand reportedly is "sharper" than some other sands. Of course, using old pool sand removes the issue of sharp edges on the sand grains.

I think you are fine either way. I wash all substrate material before it goes in my tank, just in case. Play sand quality varies greatly, some requires a lot more washing.
 
#28 ·
Ah, heck, may as well share my thoughts on the sand issue!

My favorite sand of all? The black "tahitian moon". Downside = almost as expensive as a bag of "ecocomplete"! Why is it my favorite? My observations that the darker substrate intensifies the darkness of the fishes colors.
i have thought about this moon sand. do you have MTS? or anything to turn it over? would that even work since it compacts so well?

my niece has soem of that stuff and as soon as i touched it i thought...man this would look good in an aquarium. lol.

all of my sand tanks also have MTS to turn the sand over and to prevent the gas pockets.
 
#29 ·
I have lots of MTS and lots of plants. I don't think the tahitian moon sand is any worse than play sand for compaction issues. I don't worry about the hydrogen sulfide issue, except where black sand shows on the tank glass. That, I agitate during weekly water changes. I have good filter current flow, which should minimize any gas-release issues from the substrate, my plants really don't like having their roots disrupted on a regular basis, and as Byron has posted elsewhere, there is evidence that anaerobic pockets might not be all bad (at least for plants)! Note, I do like a thick substrate since I have lots of sword plants.
 
#31 ·
Umm what's this about black sand? I def have some
Showing on the glass...is that bad? What should I do about it?
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There is a difference between "black" as I think DKRST meant it, and the normal darkening that I have just below the top of the substrate along the front on all my tanks, be they gravel, sand or Flourite. A few times I have pushed the siphon down and pulled up all the gravel, and this "film" is on the glass and will come off, usually with a light scraping. I've never bothered with it.

Byron.
 
#32 ·
Opps, sorry I wasn't specific enough! The "black sand" I was referring to are areas in my play sand tanks that start getting anaerobic and develop dark black areas (low O2 and starts getting black from hydrogen sulfide-generating bacteria), It's just aesthetically ugly to me, that's why I stir that particular area up - it oxygenates that area and eliminates the o2-poor spot, at least temporarily. As I said, I like a deep sand substrate (3-4") to support the roots of my swords and that leads to more potential issues with deep compacted sand areas. I have never had any issues in terms of hydrogen sulfide/compacted sand problems even when I don't regularly de-compact the sand in my tanks.
 
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