15 days of cycle still see no nitrites? - Page 2 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #11 of 19 Old 01-21-2015, 07:38 AM
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The cycling bacteria (Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira) are both autotrophic, that is to say aerobic bacteria. Other bacteria are mostly heterotrophs (aerobic and fast-growing), and anaerobes except for the facultative bacteria which grow with or without oxygen. These have other functions and lifestyles in the tank, some of which are antithetical to the nitrogen cycle. Anaerobes have a hard time on surfaces, media and normal, shallow substrate.

To actually complete the nitrification cycle requires using anaerobic denitrifiers in a deep substrate (like sand) bed. This is much easier to do in wild, natural environments, but somewhat difficult to achieve in an aquarium. That's why >99% of aquarists deal with nitrate by changing water, thereby cutting off the full nitrogen cycle.

Certain chemicals can have an effect on the cycling bacteria: chlorine kills them; too much ammonia or nitrite can put them into hibernation or, rarely, kill them. None of the chemicals in Prime, nor any of the other conditioners with which I'm familiar, are in any way bad for bacteria. Some medications are.
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post #12 of 19 Old 01-21-2015, 08:13 PM
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My tank is 12 or 14 gallons (packaging said 14, math tells me 12) I've gone through two bottles of the TSS unsuccessfully, but the seachem stability seems to be effective. Not sure if it's because I bought the TSS from a national chain but the seachem came from a LFS (possibly leading to more careful handling by the retailer) or if there was something else at play, but if you're going to buy the bacteria, go to the mom and pop local shop if you have the option. I've had more problems than it's worth with buying living things for an aquarium from the chains.
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post #13 of 19 Old 01-22-2015, 05:06 AM
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My tank is 12 or 14 gallons (packaging said 14, math tells me 12) I've gone through two bottles of the TSS unsuccessfully, but the seachem stability seems to be effective. Not sure if it's because I bought the TSS from a national chain but the seachem came from a LFS (possibly leading to more careful handling by the retailer) or if there was something else at play, but if you're going to buy the bacteria, go to the mom and pop local shop if you have the option. I've had more problems than it's worth with buying living things for an aquarium from the chains.
If go this way make sure to seed the bacteria directly into the filter not into the water directly.
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post #14 of 19 Old 01-22-2015, 09:37 AM
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TSS contains living organisms which can be killed by heat or cold. They have a long but limited shelf-life. Retail chains don't take this into account during shipping and storage.

Stability prepares a good environment for the cycling bacteria. It does not contain the actual cycling bacteria.

Last edited by Hallyx; 01-22-2015 at 09:40 AM.
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post #15 of 19 Old 01-22-2015, 10:27 AM
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TSS contains living organisms which can be killed by heat or cold. They have a long but limited shelf-life. Retail chains don't take this into account during shipping and storage.

Stability prepares a good environment for the cycling bacteria. It does not contain the actual cycling bacteria.
I completely agree with the first part. The chains employ retail associates, not given the specialized training to understand their products.

I do, however, think you might be thinking of another product in their line when you state that stability only prepares the enviornment. The Stability packaging itself says that the compound "...contains a synergistic blend of aerobic, anaerobic, and facultative bacteria..." and makes no other claims to its function aside from providing the bacteria.
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post #16 of 19 Old 01-23-2015, 08:08 AM
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I completely agree with the first part. The chains employ retail associates, not given the specialized training to understand their products.
Yes, exceptions to the contrary notwithstanding, their "associates" are frequently ignorant and ill-trained. I'm talking about the logistical protocols (ordering, shipping, storage). Living bacteria are given no special consideration. They're treated just like a SpongeBob ornament. Seachem Stability can withstand this treatment because their bacteria in not "alive" in the sense that Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira, the actual cycling bacteria, are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightwishFae View Post
I do, however, think you might be thinking of another product in their line when you state that stability only prepares the enviornment. The Stability packaging itself says that the compound "...contains a synergistic blend of aerobic, anaerobic, and facultative bacteria..." and makes no other claims to its function aside from providing the bacteria.
If you were to dose Stability then seal the tank so that no cycling bacteria can get in, the tank will never cycle even if provided with ammonia. TSS will cycle if given ammonia, even in a sealed tank.

Not all bacteria are created equal. Manufacturers are very sloppy in their terminology. Terms like beneficial bacteria and nitrifying bacteria are thrown around casually in advertising copy. While not outright lies, these terms are misleading in that they can be applied to many bacteria that do not actually perform the nitrogen cycle.

Even though it may contain aerobic, anaerobic, facultative, beneficial, nitrifying or any other non-specified bacteria, if the product does not contain live Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira bacteria, it will not cycle the set-up.

This is the website of Dr. Timothy Hovanec, the man who developed the first bottled bacteria product.
http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/
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post #17 of 19 Old 01-24-2015, 04:46 AM
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looks like we need to test a few products.... I have heard the bacteria stays alive longer in shipping if its suspended in gell or a "bio ball" (only able to find the "bio ball" at my local pet shop and its not in english)

Last edited by Embouck7; 01-24-2015 at 05:05 AM.
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post #18 of 19 Old 01-24-2015, 05:28 AM
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Dr. Tim suspends his bacteria in a proprietary liquid which extends their shelf-life to a year (he claims). Freshness can be determines by the "sell-by" date. TSS, invented by Dr Tim, also carries this date. I'm sure each of these products are useful after 6-months.

I can't remember them all, but these products contain live bacteria:
Tetra Safestart
Dr. Tim's One-and-Only
MicrobeLift NiteOut
ATM Colony
TCM Smartstart (?)
Drs. Foster &Smith product

I've gotten feedback about the first four of those as being effective in accelerating the nitrogen cycle. Most often reported were TSS and Dr Tim's.

I don't know of any live bacteria products preserved in gel. There is a small company that sells bacteria-infused sponges (sponge filters) that work well. The same cautions about heat and cold apply.

I'm not familiar with the "bio-ball." Could you provide a link?
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post #19 of 19 Old 01-25-2015, 05:30 AM
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I will do some digging, might have to just go down to the pet shop and snap a pic
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