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Spiky red parasite(?) on anus of black neon tetra

This is a discussion on Spiky red parasite(?) on anus of black neon tetra within the Tropical Fish Diseases forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> I should be getting my Levamisole HCl today or tomorrow. I need some info: 1. Lighting -- is it enough to just keep the ...

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Spiky red parasite(?) on anus of black neon tetra
Old 03-27-2012, 09:41 AM   #21
Ami
 
I should be getting my Levamisole HCl today or tomorrow. I need some info:

1. Lighting -- is it enough to just keep the lamps in the hood off, or do I need to keep all my windows closed too? I get some indirect light from a window about 8 feet away from the tank.

2. Water change -- how much will I need to do? My dealer recommends doing almost 100% water change, i.e. just enough room for the fish to swim.

3. Vacuuming gravel -- How bad is it if I can't gravel the whole tank...I got quite a few plants that are rooted into the substrate. I think I will be able to gravel about 20-30% of the substrate. I can pick out the driftwood and clean it, but is it necessary?
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:10 PM   #22
 
I've actually always left the tank lights on. I keep the stored stuff in the dark though.

I agree with the close to 100% change. Just clean best you can. Remember you repeat the treatment in a week then again a few weeks later. IMO 3 treatments is best. You can certainly do more if you want to. I would gravel vac what you can. Do make sure you rinse the filter media out as well. Its a bit more in depth if you actually have infected fish. When I treat new fish its usually just one treatment and I don't clean things as much. The good thing is camallanus is not a very infectious disease. It can certainly spread and wipe out a tank, but it is slow. As always healthy fish have greater resistance to diseases.
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:29 PM   #23
Ami
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikaila31 View Post
I've actually always left the tank lights on. I keep the stored stuff in the dark though.

I agree with the close to 100% change. Just clean best you can. Remember you repeat the treatment in a week then again a few weeks later. IMO 3 treatments is best. You can certainly do more if you want to. I would gravel vac what you can. Do make sure you rinse the filter media out as well. Its a bit more in depth if you actually have infected fish. When I treat new fish its usually just one treatment and I don't clean things as much. The good thing is camallanus is not a very infectious disease. It can certainly spread and wipe out a tank, but it is slow. As always healthy fish have greater resistance to diseases.
Thanks. If this batch of med works, I'm ceratainly going to stock up and treat any fish that I get in the future.
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:49 PM   #24
 
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Originally Posted by afremont View Post
I dosed two tanks and they got way cloudy, more so than the first tank. Plus there weren't as many crumbs, so I guess the DMSO did its job. It's only been about an hour now, but the fish are still acting ok.
Update. As of this morning, they weren't looking too chipper, especially two of them. I got worried so I transferred them all to the other tank with 3 unaffected meanish DGs. If you remember, that is the tank I dosed first using water as the solvent, which had little to no effect on the fish. I still have done a 50% water change in that tank just in case.

One has large bumps on his side that I presume to be impacted worms. There were a couple others that had smaller bumps, but they seem to be diminishing. I worry for this one though, I fear he may not make it. I gave him an epsom salt bath this morning trying to get him to poop, but to no avail. He's hanging in there though, still upright and not on his side.

The other has been looking kinda thin lately and clamping his fins just a bit so I knew he was weak. He looks almost dead, but still upright and able to get up and move when he wants. He doesn't have any lumps, but he did pass some stringy white poo earlier today.

Speaking of poop, there was plenty in the tank this morning that looked awfully light colored so I guess most of the others passed their worms ok. I'm shocked as I already treated these fish with parasite guard and Jungle medicated food with praziquantel, metrodazanole and levamisole and yet there were live nematode larva coming out still.

I'm worried about the two fish, but I think the others will recover. They're still really lethargic for the most part, but seem to be perking up. It's odd, I dosed the water to 2ppm as instructed in an expensive fish disease book, yet I feel that it was way too strong of a dose. I truly feel that the fish are being poisoned by the amount of medication in the water. I was already aware that using a dewormer could cause the fish to become impacted when they all let loose and knot up in the intestine. Worms can also die and fail to completely be eliminated which can lead to infection and death as well.
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:59 PM   #25
Ami
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by afremont View Post
Update. As of this morning, they weren't looking too chipper, especially two of them. I got worried so I transferred them all to the other tank with 3 unaffected meanish DGs. If you remember, that is the tank I dosed first using water as the solvent, which had little to no effect on the fish. I still have done a 50% water change in that tank just in case.

One has large bumps on his side that I presume to be impacted worms. There were a couple others that had smaller bumps, but they seem to be diminishing. I worry for this one though, I fear he may not make it. I gave him an epsom salt bath this morning trying to get him to poop, but to no avail. He's hanging in there though, still upright and not on his side.

The other has been looking kinda thin lately and clamping his fins just a bit so I knew he was weak. He looks almost dead, but still upright and able to get up and move when he wants. He doesn't have any lumps, but he did pass some stringy white poo earlier today.

Speaking of poop, there was plenty in the tank this morning that looked awfully light colored so I guess most of the others passed their worms ok. I'm shocked as I already treated these fish with parasite guard and Jungle medicated food with praziquantel, metrodazanole and levamisole and yet there were live nematode larva coming out still.

I'm worried about the two fish, but I think the others will recover. They're still really lethargic for the most part, but seem to be perking up. It's odd, I dosed the water to 2ppm as instructed in an expensive fish disease book, yet I feel that it was way too strong of a dose. I truly feel that the fish are being poisoned by the amount of medication in the water. I was already aware that using a dewormer could cause the fish to become impacted when they all let loose and knot up in the intestine. Worms can also die and fail to completely be eliminated which can lead to infection and death as well.
It may be that the DMSO is not good for the fish. I looked up the MSDS for DMSO. Although its rated as "low ingestion hazard" for humans, it may not be the best for the fish.
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:01 AM   #26
 
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Originally Posted by Ami View Post
It may be that the DMSO is not good for the fish. I looked up the MSDS for DMSO. Although its rated as "low ingestion hazard" for humans, it may not be the best for the fish.
I searched out toxicity studies specifically for fish before deciding to use it. One that I found showed the LC50 (concentration required to kill 50% of the fish in a test group) was 30,000-45,000ppm (3-4%) which is about 300 times more than I was using, and the study was for a 96 hour period of exposure. These fish weren't going to make 24 hours from the looks of things. DMSO is far less toxic than acetone which is commonly used as well, I really don't think it's to blame here. I really think the fish were overdosing on the meds, but I used 1 gram of 22% (220mg) of fenbendazole to dose 110 liters of water which is exactly 2ppm(mg/l) of the med. I actually mixed it a little weaker than that.

I did find one story of someone who lost all their fish after 24 hours. I figured maybe they overdosed accidentally, but I'd say I was headed to the same outcome if I left my fish in there. I think maybe I should stick to feeding fenbendazole to the fish from now on, seems to be allot safer. On the other hand, dosing them at maybe at 1/4 to as low as 1/10 what I used might do the trick. The fish didn't freak out right off, it took many hours for the effects to set in. When I went to bed, they were still acting ok and it had been a good 8 hours since I dosed them. But by morning, they were obviously in trouble.

UPDATE: I intended to post the above stuff yesterday, but I didn't get around to finishing it. This morning finds all five fish still alive. The blue DG with the huge bumps was "sleeping" at the top of the tank as he has done before. He still has bumps, but they're smaller it seems. Still worried about him though. The one that looked closest to death yesterday is swimming around and visiting the surface. I still have the lights off so I can't see them well, but everyone appears to be quite alive.
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:21 AM   #27
Ami
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by afremont View Post
I searched out toxicity studies specifically for fish before deciding to use it. One that I found showed the LC50 (concentration required to kill 50% of the fish in a test group) was 30,000-45,000ppm (3-4%) which is about 300 times more than I was using, and the study was for a 96 hour period of exposure. These fish weren't going to make 24 hours from the looks of things. DMSO is far less toxic than acetone which is commonly used as well, I really don't think it's to blame here. I really think the fish were overdosing on the meds, but I used 1 gram of 22% (220mg) of fenbendazole to dose 110 liters of water which is exactly 2ppm(mg/l) of the med. I actually mixed it a little weaker than that.

I did find one story of someone who lost all their fish after 24 hours. I figured maybe they overdosed accidentally, but I'd say I was headed to the same outcome if I left my fish in there. I think maybe I should stick to feeding fenbendazole to the fish from now on, seems to be allot safer. On the other hand, dosing them at maybe at 1/4 to as low as 1/10 what I used might do the trick. The fish didn't freak out right off, it took many hours for the effects to set in. When I went to bed, they were still acting ok and it had been a good 8 hours since I dosed them. But by morning, they were obviously in trouble.

UPDATE: I intended to post the above stuff yesterday, but I didn't get around to finishing it. This morning finds all five fish still alive. The blue DG with the huge bumps was "sleeping" at the top of the tank as he has done before. He still has bumps, but they're smaller it seems. Still worried about him though. The one that looked closest to death yesterday is swimming around and visiting the surface. I still have the lights off so I can't see them well, but everyone appears to be quite alive.
Thnaks for the info on the solvents...I would have never thought of using DMSO and acetone
Also, I hope your fish make it.
I got my meds in the mail yesterday eve and got all the distilled water I need (I dilute tap water with distilled water to lower the hardness). I'm gonna put the meds in tomorrow eve when I got time.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:31 AM   #28
Ami
 
OK folks, so here's my update on the Levamisole-HCl I got from chrisyang1​155 on e-bay

Short version:
This guy ripped me off. I'm hopping mad I wasted money, a LOT of time and a few of my fish are dead.
Any idea on exposing this rip off artist on e-bay?

Long version:

Friday evening -- I wasn't sure if the guy wasn't just selling me sugar or salt crystals so I tasted a granule. It had the bite like very dilute HCl, so at lest that was ruled out
I drained out as much water from my 55 gallons as I could and dosed as recommended on page selling the meds...I've copied and pasted below:

"Very effective treatment against many internal parasites, especially nematodes, when used in appropriate dosages. It does not harm the bio-filter, plants, invertebrates or uninfected fish. As an added benefit, it also boosts the immune system of fish. Levamisole HCl is highly effective as a treatment against nematode species, but does not work for tapeworms, flatworms or flukes. Quarantine tank treatment with Levamisole HCl prior to placing new wild caught fish into an established community tank is advised. This will both eliminate parasites and boost the immune system of your fish helping them to keep at bay any secondary infections as a result of parasitic damage.
Dose about 0.8 gram powder every 10 gallons of water. Do a massive water change before adding the medication. Leave the medication in the tank for 3 days (72 hours), then do another massive water change. Massive water change means as close to 100% as possible. Gravel (if you have any) should also be vacuumed to remove any dead worms.Repeat the treatment in 3 weeks, as any leftover dead worms may still have eggs that can reinfect the tank."



By the next morning (Saturday), the water looked a little milky, but I didn't worry about anything. By 5PM the water was REALLY milky....that's when I remembered Mikaila saying that the dosage seems like too much. I wonder if the thieving cretin chrisyang1155 ever used this stuff on his own fish...if he ever kept fish. And also if he knew the difference between gram and milligram.

I could tell the stuff was toxic, because not only was all the fish gasping for air at the water surface but all the sanils were crawling out of the tank. Luckily my 10 gallon planted quarantine tank was up and running so I transferred all the live fish into it. Fortunately all of the transferred fish survived.
I changed as much water as I could again, and the water is still somewhat milky. I'll do a couple more massive changes and then transfer fish back in the 55 gallon.

Pics will be posted in the next post

Last edited by Ami; 04-02-2012 at 11:42 AM..
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:37 AM   #29
Ami
 
The first picture is about 20 hours after adding the meds...note the gasping fish and the sanils just above waterline. I threw away some snails and kept the rest.

The second picture is after I did a massive water change once.

Normally I have a layer of floating hornwort at the top, but I took it all out when I was cleaning the tank.

Anybody know of someone who sells real Levamisole-HCl ? The two fish that have the worms still have the worms.

Thanks for hearing me out guys.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg fish_gasping.jpg (31.3 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_4861.jpg (55.8 KB, 14 views)

Last edited by Ami; 04-02-2012 at 11:43 AM..
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:04 PM   #30
 
Wow, sorry to hear that. Sounds eerily similar to my experience. Did it appear to have a deworming effect on the fish? Did they poop white? Do you happen to know the concentration? .8g sounds like allot of meds for 10 gallons unless it's diluted some. This page recommends 13ppm in the tank:
Treating Your water with Levamisole
.8g of pure levamisole in 10 gallons is a little over 21ppm, about 50% over what the other page recommends.

My fish have somehow miraculously escaped death, including the big blue one with the bumps. He slowly and continuously pooped for several days, bumps going down but now completely away. Then yesterday I happened to look in and saw a 3-4" long piece of white poop hanging from him. I guess he finally cleared the obstruction and the bumps were completely gone. It took all of them until yesterday to recover from their meds, it really smacked them down for a few days. They all seem like they're going to be ok now, they all eat and nobody hides. The big blue one has decided to take over being alpha male now, so I guess he's feeling better. They all act starved, but I'm holding back on the food some for a few days, so they don't gorge themselves and get constipated really bad.
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