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Please help! Horrible case of Columnaris

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Please help! Horrible case of Columnaris
Old 07-24-2012, 05:47 PM   #21
 
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Ok cool .... Good question and the answer is in the dosing.... The dosage reaches full concentration after 5 days and there after doesn't increase ... On the contrary it starts to decrease at a sim alar rate to the 5 days of increase. As a result if you dose them for an extra two days the extended period at full dosage will have no appreciable I'll effects.... Thus not really overdosing at all. Keep all fish in the medication until all dish have had full dosage for at least the intended time.
You did very well with your Berra but I cannot honestly recall a single incident where CPR has worked on a fish... Sometimes these natural accidents do just happen and it's never at a good time!!!!
Well done anyway. I'm always here.
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RackinRocky (07-24-2012)
Old 07-24-2012, 05:58 PM   #22
 
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Oh, Rocky. . . I'm so sorry, dear. I know how much that little girl meant to you. . . You worked so hard to save her. . . and this? Gah, I'm just so sad for you . . .I wish it could have come out better for her. Try to take comfort in the wonderful news that the rest of the tank seems to be on the mend, and doing well. Hopefully this nightmare will be over soon, and you can enjoy your fish again, instead of fretting and doing head-counts every time you look into their world. . . Hang in there, girl - this is almost all behind you.
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:47 PM   #23
 
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Thank you, Snappy! Now I don't have to worry about overdosing anyone! I know you are always supposed to finish ALL antibiotics, in case resistance develops, so now I'll be able to finish it with everyone.

As if all this wasn't bad enough, I am now seeing little white spots on three of my fish in the 55 gallon tank. Can you believe it? They are all white or light colored, but I see a few spots in their tails. I keep reading to keep the tank on the cooler side for Columnaris, but with ich, I've gotten rid of it by raising the temp and adding salt. So now what do I do? I am ready to tear my hair out--its just one thing after another. No one is acting sick, but I don't want to wait until they are covered in ich either. Plus there are lots of plants in that tank to complicate things, as far as temp and salt go. Holy Moly, this is all almost too much. If I'm not positive they have ich, am I safe to wait a couple of days and see if the spots increase?
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:56 PM   #24
 
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If it isn't one thing. . . *sigh*

It does often happen that fish that are fighting a disease will come down with secondary illnesses due to their wakened systems, and the stress they're under. . . only. . . I was really hoping you'd get by without ANYTHING else to worry about.


I think, as a general rule, you don't want to treat anything until you're sure of what it is - especially with fish that are already under a lot of stress, as yours have been. But I know this isn't true in all cases. . . I'm just not positive which those might be!

Don't worry about the plants. They might not appreciate the salination or increase in temperature, but they'll probably come through just fine - maybe a bit worse for wear, but they'll rebound. Plants are amazing. I've recently seen a few people go through ich treatment in heavily planted tanks with little or no repercussion in the greenery department (not saying that it can't happen). And even if you'd be sentencing them to death, I'd say it's better to kill the plants to save the fish any time...

I'm nowhere near qualified to offer any advice here, except to say wait and see what The Snaps has to say. He'll know just what to do, but we're all on different time-zones. . .I'm sure he will be back to check on you when it's morning there, but just to try to help him out. . .since you'll likely be in bed when he's around. . .and hopefully YOU'LL have a chance to stop by before he does, lol!

Can you clarify the situation as it stands now?

Which fish are in which tanks with which meds and in what conditions at this point?
You've seen Ich before, how sure (or not) are you that this is the same?
White spots - on which fish (species), specifically?
Any chance of a photo?
What temperatures are the tanks right now, and what are the current parameters (ammonia, nitrate, nitrite?)
When were the last water changes through all of this?
. . . and whatever else you can think of that might help out!

Hang in there, sweetie! This too soon shall pass. . .you're handling all this like a pro! You can ask Snappy - I'd be falling apart by now! If you need to vent, feel free to send me a PM. It sometimes helps. . .

*MORE HUGS*
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Old 07-25-2012, 01:10 AM   #25
 
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Ches, you lifesaver, you! I feel like I'm just going to lose it with all this worry. When I had ich before it was in my 20 gallon, and the plants melted, and made a horrible mess. The turkey baster didn't cut it when trying to get it all up, and I'm STILL the mess up. I'm afraid of that happening again, as that will make the water quality bad! Then my fish will be even more vulnerable to getting something again. So that's mainly why I was worried about the plants.

I have 6 fish left in the 55 gallon. A platy, 3 balloon Mollies, an albino cory and the Bolivian Ram.
I have 5 fish in the 10 gallon hospital tank. 2 female bettas, 2 platies, 1 balloon Molly.

The 55 gallon is not currently being treated with any meds, as all the fish in there are showing no symptoms (other than the few white tail spots I just discovered yesterday).
The 10 gallon tank is being treated with Maracyn and Maracyn Two.

And yes, this does look like the ich I had before. Only I can't see any body spots, but its so much harder on lighter colored fish, and the fish affected are either white or light calicos, so I'm only seeing tail spots at the moment. One platy and two mollies have the white spots. There are only maybe 3 spots on each fish's tail.

Temps on both tanks are right around 75. I don't want them too cold, but I know the temp should be lower when fighting Columnaris. (I normally keep them around 79-80). The 55 gallon has Ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrates 15.

Just checked the 10 gallon today, and the meds have apparently killed off the BB. Ammonia, nitrites and Nitrates are all zero! And this tank was in the last stages of cycling when I started the meds, so I know its the meds that did it. I check with the API liquid test kit at least 2-3 times a week on all tanks.

As for water changes, they are done weekly (25-30%) unless I get a high reading of anything, then I do it sooner. But they are done religiously.

And yes, I'm falling apart, literally. I feel I'm becoming paranoid, constantly checking the fish for anything at all that looks unusual. The fish in the10 gallon (the bettas, actually) are acting very irritated and flashing. I feel so bad for them, as they have a few more days of treatment to go, and then I have to decide if I should put them through another course of treatment! Oh Lordy. . .
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:01 AM   #26
 
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Hokey dokey!!!!! Welll here we go..... Chesh is very right , secondary infections are usually and often seen after more serious afflictions like columnaris, so dont worry it not your fault.... the fact is that you never actually get rid of Ich...it lies dormant in the water and can show absolutely no symptoms on the fish until they become weakened by trauma like this, then it manifests its self with a vengence. The give away was the plants, you say your tank is well planted....and thats probably where the ich came in to the tank in the first place.
Ok so now to the care plan..... I have two points:
1. treat the ich as you have done in the past, with the salt and temperature raising, along side the maracyn and maracyn 2 .... Maracyn is a stable med and not really reduced in efficacy by temperatures being higher.... the reason you normally lower the temps for columnaris is to slow down is reproduction and thus allow the meds to get a grip on the situation, this has now been done so now you can re-adjust the temperatures to treat for ich and add the salt etc. I hasten to add this will NOT likely kill of the Ich completely, but it will stave it off enough to allow you to deal with the columnaris first..... then we will deal with the Ich properly.
The Bettas that are struggling, keep a close eye on them, you dont know how old they are and they are a short lived fish so just keep a close eye on them but dont be disheartened if they do go. That rings me on to....
2. Im not sure how long you have kept fish but do expect some deaths.... its inevitable. The fact is you are trying to play god with both plants and fish, and we simple don't have the skills of the good Lord himself. Don't panic about the tank.... they do have a habit of finding a way of balancing themselves somehow, and often its not what you do that counts its what you don't do! So the general plan is this:
1. Treat fro columnaris
2. Treat Properly for Ich
3. sit back and watch the tank settle down again properly..

Oh one thig id suggest.... drop back to 10% water changes weekly instead of the 30%.... its a bit more gentle and for the fish you have still well within limits of safety.

Hope this helps. :)
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:40 AM   #27
 
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So you want her to go ahead and treat both tanks for Ich? Both the medicated 10g and the non-medicated 55?
Is the normal salt dosage going to be safe for her Cory?

Thanks, Snappy! *luffs*


Last edited by Chesh; 07-25-2012 at 06:46 AM..
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:04 AM   #28
 
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Yup on both counts.
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:20 PM   #29
 
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OMG, treating the 55 with Maracyn and Maracyn Two will cost a FORTUNE! I am treating the fish that act sick in the 10 gallon, and the ones that don't act or look sick are in the 55, just to clarify that. Can I just treat for ich in the 55? I'm glad the temp can go back up now, as I feel the fish were uncomfortable in such a low temp.

So Snapper, do i HAVE to treat with Maracyn and Maracyn Two in the 55, where I have the fish that show no signs of disease? And will 1 tsp. salt in the 55 per gallon be all right?
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:15 PM   #30
 
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It's the wrong side of the clock where Snapz is, so I'll clarify for him - The way *I* read that was that he wants you to treat BOTH tanks for Ich, and continue treating the 10g for Columnaris,

You shouldn't have to treat the 55, where the fish seem to be doing well - I doubt he'd tell you to do that, anyway - it isn't his style. I asked for clarification in my last post, and he said to go ahead and use the dosage on the package - that should be okay.

Since the fish in the 10g have already gotten half-way through treatment, the sickness shouldn't be spreading anymore, so on both counts you ought to be fine with upping the temps. I *think* 86 is the temperature you're aiming for while treating Ich (double check me on this, please). And the meds you're using for columnaris will not be effected by the raised temperature nor the salt, and so are safe to use together - in the 10g - only.

But like he said, these poor little guys are under stress on top of stress on top of stress. Hopefully you get through with no more deaths, but there is still the possibility. *hugs* You're ALMOST THROUGH! And from now on I know you'll QT new fish AND plants for a month before adding them. It's a mistake we all have made, one of those 'it'll never happen to me' lessons, unfortunately. :(

Just to let you know, in case you don't - raising the temperature reduces the amount of oxygen available in the water, so if you don't have bubblers in these tanks already, it's a good idea to go ahead and pop them in to help the finned ones breathe a bit more easily!

I'm sure he'll be by when it's daylight on his side of the world to check in :)

You're almost done. . . just hang in there a little bit longer, and this will all go away and you can start rebuilding!!!
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