platys with ich?
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platys with ich?

This is a discussion on platys with ich? within the Tropical Fish Diseases forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Ugh! I think 2 of my platys have ich.. i have 3 platys, and i noticed that one of them had like 3 white ...

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Old 08-19-2011, 12:25 AM   #1
 
platys with ich?

Ugh! I think 2 of my platys have ich.. i have 3 platys, and i noticed that one of them had like 3 white spots on him but they were large.. i have heard that ich looks like salt on a fish, but this doesn't look like salt. he's acting normal, and not scratching himself on anything. however, now the female platy has a big white blotch on her head, but its not raised or anything, and doesnt have tiny white dots.. it looks like theyre skin is changing color basically... i have a 10 gallon, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate, and p.h is 7.5, temperature is 77 degrees, and i have had this tank set up for 5 months..unfortunately i cant get a picture of them cuz its hard because theyre swimming around .. im gunna try though and i will post them tomorrow.. i use aquarium salt in my tank, 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons, so right now theres 2 tablespoons worth of salt in the tank since its a 10 gallon... should i just treat them as if they have ich even if i dont know its exactly ich though?
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Old 08-19-2011, 12:38 AM   #2
 
Have you put any new fish in the tank recently? How many fish are in the tank? What kinds? Any other recent changes to the tank?
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Old 08-19-2011, 01:29 AM   #3
 
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How often do you change the water and how much do you change out? Do you have any live plants in this tank? With you having no nitrates it makes me wonder if your tank is cycled? How often do you check the levels for ammonia, nitrite and nitrates. Also what type of test kit are you using, are you using a liquid test kit like API master test kit, or are you using the stick tests? If you are able to post pictures that will help. Also in the tropical fish disease section there is a thread on freshwater and saltwater diseases. You might want to look through these and see if anything matches up with what you are noticing with your fish.
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Old 08-26-2011, 02:32 AM   #4
 
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Originally Posted by ladayen View Post
Have you put any new fish in the tank recently? How many fish are in the tank? What kinds? Any other recent changes to the tank?


i have 3 platys, 2 males and 1 female, 2 bamboo shrimp and a few snails.. but the only fish i have are 3 platys.. no i havent put any new fish in there recently.. no other recently changes at all.. i recently added the snails and bamboo shrimp thats it
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Old 08-26-2011, 02:34 AM   #5
 
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Originally Posted by BarbH View Post
How often do you change the water and how much do you change out? Do you have any live plants in this tank? With you having no nitrates it makes me wonder if your tank is cycled? How often do you check the levels for ammonia, nitrite and nitrates. Also what type of test kit are you using, are you using a liquid test kit like API master test kit, or are you using the stick tests? If you are able to post pictures that will help. Also in the tropical fish disease section there is a thread on freshwater and saltwater diseases. You might want to look through these and see if anything matches up with what you are noticing with your fish.

i change the water about twice a week, and i change 2 gallons each time i change it.. i have 1 live plant.. my tank is defnitely cycled because my ammonia spiked in the beginning, and them my nitrites, and then they went down.. now all my readings are 0.. i check ammonia and nitrite once a week, and i use the api liquid master test kit... im going to try and get a picture up, its just hard cuz they swim really fast and the picture comes out blurry.
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Old 08-26-2011, 07:48 AM   #6
 
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Originally Posted by ruby716 View Post
i use aquarium salt in my tank, 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons, so right now theres 2 tablespoons worth of salt in the tank since its a 10 gallon... should i just treat them as if they have ich even if i dont know its exactly ich though?
If you are using salt on a permanent basis in the tank, I would stop using it. Livebearers do not need salt, they are freshwater fish and it can end up being detrimental if used on a long term basis.

I would not treat for Ich unless it was Ich and it doesn't sound like it.

Last edited by Beaches; 08-26-2011 at 07:51 AM..
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:28 AM   #7
 
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If you are using salt on a permanent basis in the tank, I would stop using it. Livebearers do not need salt, they are freshwater fish and it can end up being detrimental if used on a long term basis.

I would not treat for Ich unless it was Ich and it doesn't sound like it.


Well I heard that adding some aquarium salt to the water if you have platys is good and that it wont due them no harm... here is a picture that i took of the fish and you can see the white marks really good on him

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Old 08-27-2011, 11:17 PM   #8
 
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I apologise for the long post.....

Thanks for the pic. ruby...that definitely isn't Ich! It could possibly be the start of columnaris (bacterial infection), or from water quality issues, diet/lack of various vitamins/minerals, missing scales from flashing or fighting, stress...it could be due to many things. It is a bit of a concern that you are not showing any readings of Nitrate, but usually means that your tank hasn't cycled, unless you have a heavily planted tank and the plants are absorbing all the nitrates.

In relation to the salt issue.....May I say that this is a myth that keeps being perpetuated and in all honesty, Livebearers do not need salt, it has been scientifically proven, so it isn't just me stating my opinion. It is only believed so, because in the wild these fish often travel between the different water types. Apart from a published article by Dr. Ted Coletti, there are two other posts/articles that I have come across that give the best explanations/reasons as to why "Salt is not needed by Livebearers". The first quote (from a member on other forum), I stumbled upon while researching a long time ago and the second quote is by Byron, one of the Moderators here. The context/reasoning/facts are similar in both quotes....I do hope you will read them.

Quote:
By SaltwaterAddict: The following statements are not merely the opinion of this hobbyist, they are founded in scientific fact.

1. The first idea that I'd like to deal with is the ideal of "Relief of Osmotic stress." This is an idea that is not entirely a myth, however it is often presented as a blanket statement and that is where the myth arrives. For fish that come from environments that have 0 salt (aka, most captive bred fish) the addition of salt does nothing to relieve osmotic stress, it creates it. For wild caught fish that come from brackish environments or environments where there a trace amount of salt can be found, the addition of a very small amount of salt will help with osmotic stress.

2. Myth number 2 deals specifically with livebearers. Mollies, Platys, Swordtails, and Guppies are often presented as being brackish fish or fish that require salt. This is a completely false idea. Platys, Swordtails, and Guppies are all completely freshwater species. Mollies are not a brackish fish, they are however a euryhaline species. This simply means they can adapt to a wide range of salinities. They key word there is adapt, they do not require salt at all but they can adapt to levels ranging from none all the way to full marine.

3 and 4. The third myth deals with disease prevention and the fourth does right along with it; stress reduction. Again, this is not entirely false but it is still entirely unnecessary. Salt allows the fish keeper to keep lower than ideal water quality and it reduces the chances of disease as a result. However, the idea that it will prevent Ich is not true at all. The logic seems to be, since salt kills free swimming Ich, it will keep it from forming. This is not true, and it has in fact lead to a strain of Ich that is entirely resistant to salt. Ich is a parasite and a very adaptable one at that. Maintaining salt in your system all the time simply allows the Ich to adapt to it and develop an immunity to it. Also in this area, the logic seems to be that salt helps create a thicker slime coat which in turn makes them more disease resistant. This reason has to be the most pointless of all the reasons for using salt. While it is true salt does cause a fish to develop a thicker slime coat, the development of the thicker slime coat is a reaction to an irritant in the water, and that irritant is the salt. Irritants in the water are a source of stress, and stress is a cause of disease in fish. So, here is what the addition of salt boils down to in this case: salt irritates fish and creates stress -> fish develops thicker slime coat in reaction to irritant -> fish becomes more resistant to disease that results from a stressful situation. At this point, the fish keeper would be just as far ahead without the addition of salt, because with out the salt, there would be no creation of a stressful situation that the fish needed a defense against. Completely self defeating reason.

5. Another reason some people site for using salt is the addition of electrolytes to the water. While this may be true, the exact same thing is accomplished by simply doing a water change. Again, the addition of salt is a redundant and pointless act in this case. The salt concentration of fish blood is 15-17 parts per thousand. In freshwater the surrounding environment has a much lower salt concentration and therefore the tendency for equilibrium causes the water to diffuse into the bloodstream through the thin gill walls through osmosis. As you raise the salinity of the surrounding environment the rate of osmosis slows down. When you reach concentrations that are equal, osmosis completely stops because equilibrium has been reached. That cessation or slowing down of osmosis slows down the electrolyte intake as well. So, the introduction of extra electrolytes via salt simply makes up for the slower rate of osmosis caused by the salt. Again, self defeating.

6. The final thing I want to deal with here is the idea that Salt allows fish to diffuse more oxygen from the water. This is a completely false idea that simply proves that the advocates of this myth simply do not understand fish physiology. There is evidence that things like copper sulfate, salt, and other slime coat boosters can all cause the exact same problem. A good indication of the oxygen content of your water is the ventilation rate of your fish. If a fish is ventilating very quickly then it is attempting to get extra oxygen, and this happens when there is not enough oxygen in the water, the fish is stressed, or it cannot extract enough oxygen from the water.

Quote:
By Byron: I along with many other members do not recommend the use of salt in any freshwater aquarium. While livebearers can "tolerate" it, many other fish cannot to varying degrees, and none need it. And while using it previously may not have appeared to have done harm, you cannot know what may have been done internally to the fish. I have researched the topic previously, and will copy my synopsis below which I think will explain the scientific position.

Salt is detrimental to freshwater fish and plants in varying degrees. To understand why, we must understand what salt does in water.

Salt makes the water more dense than the same water without salt. The aquarium contains water. The bodies of fish and plant leaves also contain water [just as we do--we are, what is it, 70-some percent water?]. The water in the aquarium and the water in the fish/plant are separated by a semi-permeable layer which is the cell. Water can pass through this cell. When either body of water is more dense, the other less-dense body of water will pass through the membrane to equalize the water on both sides.

Water is constantly passing through the cells of fish by osmosis in an attempt to equate the water inside the fish (which is more dense) with the water in the aquarium. Put another way, the aquarium water is diluting the fish's body water until they are equal. Freshwater fish regularly excrete this water through respiration and urination. This is the issue behind pH differences as well as salt and other substances. It increases the fish's work--the kidney is used in the case of salt--which also increases the fish's stress in order to maintain their internal stability. Also, the fish tends to produce more mucus especially in the gills; the reason now seems to be due to the irritant property of salt--the fish is trying to get away from it.

I have an interesting measurement for fish. Dr. Stanley Weitzman, who is Emeritus Research Scientist at the Department of Ichthyology of the Smithsonian Institute in Washington and an acknowledged authority on characoid fishes, writes that 100 ppm of salt is the maximum for characins, and there are several species that show considerable stress leading to death at 60 ppm. 100 ppm is equal to .38 of one gram of salt per gallon of water. One level teaspoon holds six grams of salt, so 1 tsp of salt per gallon equates to more than 15 times the tolerable amount. Livebearers have a higher tolerance (mollies sometimes exist in brackish water) so the salt may be safe for them.

Plants: when salt is added to the aquarium water, the water inside the plant cells is less dense so it escapes through the cells. The result is that the plant literally dries out, and will wilt. I've so far been unable to find a measurement of how much salt will be detrimental to plants; all authorities I have found do note that some species are more sensitive than others, and all recommend no salt in planted aquaria.

Now you know why I never recommend salt.

Last edited by Beaches; 08-27-2011 at 11:22 PM..
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