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one dead, another on the verge

This is a discussion on one dead, another on the verge within the Tropical Fish Diseases forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> The activated carbon will not do anything to your parameters other than absorb chemicals, tannins, odor, etc....

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one dead, another on the verge
Old 11-05-2009, 08:12 PM   #11
 
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The activated carbon will not do anything to your parameters other than absorb chemicals, tannins, odor, etc.
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:03 AM   #12
 
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And the strange thing is that the betta is showing no symptoms whatsoever. Are bettas really that much more hardier than most fish?

Thanks for the responses. I'll keep you posted once I get the water result from the aquarium later today.[/quote]

I shall assume.(always a bad thing) from your filter,and lighting, that you have the biorb which is very much like a bowl. There is little surface area for oxygen exchange at the surface due to the shape of these bowls. The Betta has a labrynth organ which allows it to pull much of it's oxygen from the atmosphere while your tetras must get theirs from dissolved oxygen in the water. The smaller the surface area for oxygen exchange, combined with high temperatures and perhaps excessive organics(nitrates), will substantially reduce oxygen available for the Tetras.
Add to this elevated ammonia levels,and the enviornment lends itself to stressed fish which often times leads to sick fish.
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Old 11-06-2009, 08:34 AM   #13
 
another sad day...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1077 View Post
I shall assume.(always a bad thing) from your filter,and lighting, that you have the biorb which is very much like a bowl.
I posted the model number of the Biorb in my first entry (Life S30), which is actually not a bowl. I specifically chose not to get a bowl shaped tank.

biOrb Life S30 - Official biOrb Aquariums - Reef One. Perfect biOrb Fish Tanks for Aquarium Fish | Official biOrb Aquariums - Reef One. Perfect biOrb Fish Tanks for Aquarium Fish

The picture is not accurate...they actually give you porous gravel instead of those smooth pebbles you see in the photo. Also, there is a little hideout cave for the fish, which creates extra surface area for the bacteria to breed.

So the saga has ended. I woke up this morning and the remaining three diamond tetras had passed away. There are no physical signs of illness...in fact last night the tetras were swimming around and chasing each other like they did when I first got them (which I thought indicated a happy fish). I did a morning water test prior to feeding the betta, and the results were interesting:

GH: 60 (lower than yesterday)
KH: 80
Ammonia: <0.25 ppm (not quite 0, but pretty close)
Nitrite: 1 ppm (expected after cleaning the tank)
Nitrate: 20 ppm
Temperature: 78 degrees
pH: 6.2

6.2!? How did the pH drop so sharply overnight? Does this have to do with the drop in GH as well? I'm guessing the stress and the shock from the sudden drop of pH might have killed them...but how can the pH decrease so quickly?
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Old 11-06-2009, 08:41 AM   #14
 
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Did you add anything that would have increase the hardness levels? Your hardness changes are very strange. I am so sorry about your losses.
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:10 AM   #15
 
Other parameters

I don't think I added anything to increase/decrease hardness in the water. The baseline looked benign enough, so I decided to wait one day and see how it goes.

I might as well list the additives I added to the water yesterday as well:

API Stress Coat (1 packet per 10 gallon)
API Stress Zyme (1 packet per 10 gallon)
1 tsp of Amquel+ (in addition to the Amquel+ treated water)

Will any of those affect the hardness/pH so drastically?

The betta is doing fine as far as I can tell...I will hold off on getting any other fish until I can figure what is turning the water so acidic. I will get some crushed coral and add small amounts of them over time until the pH is regulated.

Thanks again everyone for the responses. :) I feel really bad for those little guys...
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Old 11-07-2009, 11:53 PM   #16
 
vnvlain,
Although it has been quite a while since I've held Amquel/Amquel +, is it possible to go thru fine prints on the bottle where it maight say " this product may distort the reading of Ammonia Test when using nessler reagents (1 bottle reagent and color chart goes from clear to yellow)). Thus recommend to use salycylate Reagent test kit (2 separate bottles where color chart goes from yellow to green).
Which one are you using?
BTW, I dont see a need for all those bottles. Waste of your hard earned MONEY, IMO. Just use stresscoat as dechlorinator.
I dont believe in Stresszyme at all. You dont need extra beneficial bacteria in well established tank. Stop using it. And same goes for Amquel/Amquel+.

As far as ammonia in pH 6.2, I would not even worry if level was lot higher. But if you raise the pH above 7.6 in presence of ammonia, asking for trouble.
Even at 6.2, never lost the BB but would like to see stable pH close to neutral for most tropical.
For now make sure it does not go any lower.

What types of gravel do you have and for how long?

What is pH/GH/ KH/NH3/NO2/NO3 of your tap water?
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Old 11-08-2009, 01:16 AM   #17
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerianthus View Post
Although it has been quite a while since I've held Amquel/Amquel +, is it possible to go thru fine prints on the bottle where it maight say " this product may distort the reading of Ammonia Test when using nessler reagents (1 bottle reagent and color chart goes from clear to yellow)). Thus recommend to use salycylate Reagent test kit (2 separate bottles where color chart goes from yellow to green).
Which one are you using?
Hi cerianthus, it's Ammonia testing from API, and it uses the salycylate reagent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerianthus View Post
BTW, I dont see a need for all those bottles. Waste of your hard earned MONEY, IMO. Just use stresscoat as dechlorinator.
I dont believe in Stresszyme at all. You dont need extra beneficial bacteria in well established tank. Stop using it. And same goes for Amquel/Amquel+.
The packets came with the filter I bought, so I figured it couldn't hurt. :)

I did read that Amquel+ can lower pH somewhere...I don't know if that is one of the culprits of acidic water. Currently ammonia reading is non-existent from the aquarium.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerianthus View Post
What types of gravel do you have and for how long?
The gravel I'm using came with the Biorb kit, but base on the features I'm thinking porous volcanic rock, course-grained...possibly some type of gabbro (granite like rock). The tank has been established for 3 months before the latest batch of fish. It used to house a 2 year old betta before he passed away (due to cancer, not because of the tank). A few days after he died, I got another betta and five diamond tetras and had them for almost two months before last week when all except the betta passed away. Two weeks ago I went out of town and the caretaker had overfed the fish, triggering a chain of reactions that resulted in the loss of the tetras.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerianthus View Post
What is pH/GH/ KH/NH3/NO2/NO3 of your tap water?
I just tested the tap water (without Amquel+ treatment):
pH: ~7.6 (it might be more basic since the test kit only has a range from 6.0 to 7.6)
GH: 120-180 ppm
KH: 80 ppm
NO2: 0 ppm
NO3: 0 ppm
NH3: 1 ppm
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Old 11-08-2009, 09:46 AM   #18
 
Sometimes those freebies when not used properly can cause problems which we can find ourselves baffled as to what happened, scratching our head, one of the reasons for me loosing hair, lol!

I would not add any stresszyme to new tank nor well established tank. Next time when you do NH3 test, can you add one drop of well shaken stresszyme into that same test vial to see if color changes.

Amquel or any other equivalents is only temporary fix (if it works??) which will hamper with reestablishment of more beneficial bacteria (BB) by locking them up.

As Lupin suggests, 1 ppm of NH3 in 6.2 is harmless. What you should not do at this point is massive water changes , especially with your tap. I would perform smaller (10% very important ) but more frequent water changes.
When done in small volume using your tap, you will achieve two things with each water change. You will lower the NH3 level (dilution) and at the same time, pH may go up (may tanke several water changes before noticing pH increase). This will also raise your total hardness (GH) and will assist in stablization of pH down the road since your tap Gh is higher than tank. This is good since this is what you want to/should achieve.

Make sure pH does not go higher than 7.4 before NH3 is well under controlled (0 ppm)

Eventually your tank will resettle and should not have issues with NH3/NO2 and hopefully none with pH either.

Your tap water is mederately hard (medium) hard and when right amount of water and time b/n water changes are figured out (all depends on tanks bioload), you should not have same issues anymore.

Good Luck!

Btw, whenever something goes wrong, should run the testing before applying any actions to tank. By the time any actions are applied (water changes. etc), we will never know exact condition of water at that time when problems developed.
Test results should be logged with date/detailed description of symptoms/actions taken/any remedy (med) and prognosis.

These log book can become very handy down the road.

Last edited by cerianthus; 11-08-2009 at 09:55 AM..
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Old 11-08-2009, 09:59 AM   #19
 
Forgot about the gravel. I am NOT suggesting to changed the gravel but any porous substrate will collect fine detritus within each granule which will lower pH/GH as they can breakdown with time.

Dont change it now though, especially when experiencing NH3 problems. Maybe down the road
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Old 11-08-2009, 10:17 AM   #20
 
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IMHO, i would not use any of the above mentioned...i would just use PRIME it helps convert ammonia into ammonium and it is also a dechlorinator and also helps with the slimcoat of the fish....i was using stresscoat + and wwas having issues with somethings and switched to PRIME and i have been fine ever since.....i swear by this product and it has never affected my ph/gh/kh and all my fish are happy and healthy
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