Neon tetras look scruffy - two have white lumps near mouth

zen242

I was cleaning one of my tanks today and noticed that one of the neon tetras had a rather odd white spot attached to the side of its mouth on the bottom. Ive tried to get a snap but he's too small and it doesnt come out clearly.
I also noticed that he seemed to be a bit scraggy looking - his fins seem haggard and his body colour and eyes seem whiter than usual.
I soon realised about four of our neons look this way and another has a smaller white lump attached to his face as well.
Assuming it may be Neon Tetra disease ive been looking for odd behaviour or muscle weakness, but hey are all acting quite normall today and yesterday when i noticed.
I did a water change this morning just incase, but all the other fish in the tank are fine (2 clown loaches, 2 small balas, glow tetras, ghost danio and some flying foxes and a peaceful female gourami)
Is there anything else it could be?
Should i treat them with some methalene blue?

Lupin

Hi Zen.

A pic will help. Doesn't sound like NTD to me. Have you notice them swimming restlessly at night whereas the others should go inactive?

zen242

Not that ive noticed but ill have a good look tonight and see. Generally they just either sit around, chase it each other a bit, or school.
The water specs are all ok apart from the Carbonate hardness being slightly lower than optimum - at 2dL instead of 3-10Dl like the test kit says.
My girlfriend thinks it might be a body fungus for some reason. She thinks they look dull and blackish.
Ill keep trying to get a good photo.

bettababy

A photo would be a huge help... there are a number of things that this could be. Could you also post your tank stats for us? How big is the tank? How long it has been set up, how often you do water changes, how much water at a time, what water conditioner you are using, what foods you are using, how often you are feeding, etc etc. The more information you can give to us the better and faster we can help.

I agree with Blue, this doesn't sound like Neon Tetra disease, but without the above information, there isn't much we can do to help.... also, you mentioned that water params are "ok"... can you please post specific numbers for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH? What is the temp? Are there live plants in the tank? How often is the light on?

zen242

sorry - i tried and tried to get a snap to no avail.
Ive noticed that the other fish are oicking on these guys a little.

No strange swimming at night
FUll tank specs:

Ammonia level: just above zero to zero
nitrates: zero
pH: 7
carbon: 7
GH: 7 Dh
KH: 2 dh
water changes once a fortnight 30%
temp: 78F
size 3 foot by 1 foot by 40cms - 37 gallons
fed twice a day
tankmates two small balasharks, one Chinese Algae Eater, 6 glowlights, 1 Flying Fox, one large gourami, 2 ghost danio and 2 clown loaches.

Lots of live plants in tank - tank is a planted tank - all other occupants are very healthy looking - clown loaches nice and dark and growing quickly, sharks happy and not stressed now the big shark was moved into the 4 foot (awaiting my firneds return qwith a 6 foot)
I plan on seperateing these fish

THey look like their fins are damaged, and have maybe one or two white bits on them, look drab and unhealthy and are generally being picked on by other neosn, but still eating and otherwise seem ok.
Colouration looks white or discoloured.

Derek-M

One thing concerns me here and that is the ammonia level and the fact you have no nitrate.This would indicate that the tank is not cycling.. Is this a new tank setup? and also what is your nitrite/no2 level.

bettababy

I have to agree with Derek, without knowing the nitrite reading, how long the tank has been set up, and how many neons there are total... we're all going to be at a loss to help you.

No ammonia level and no nitrate level tells me that 1 of 2 things could be happening here... either there was some kind of interruption in the biological cycle, and there is a nitrite spike that we are unaware of without the test results for it... or.. this tank is not cycled at all, and has yet to do so.

If this is a new set up, (less than 4 wks old), then it is way overstocked at such an early stage. If this is not a new set up, then there are other possibilities, but the nitrite level will say a lot.

How long is a fortnight? A week? A month?

I have to suggest slowing down the feedings... once/day is more than enough, and only what the fish can FINISH in about 1 minute. Unless feeding fry, no fish needs to eat more than once/day.
I'll continue to watch this post for more information, and I will help all I can.

Do you have a quarantine tank ready for the neons?

zen242

I went to the store where we bought the second batch of neons and some seemed to have a simikar problem. THese were bought about 5 weeks ago and quarantined for two weeks without any problems apparent.
I think it must have come with the from the shop.

I just realised that I actually tested for nitrite and not nitrate.
My test kit doesnt have nitrate - should i get a test tomorrow?
The tank is around 9 months old. Its our oldest tank and we've only had t a few deaths - a bala that died on the day it was purchased, a few glowlight tetras and a suicide.

Im still trying to get pic - unfortunately they are small unlike that Bala Shark last time and its challenging.

Ill try and quaranteen them now.

Lupin

Try to get a nitrate test. It's good that your ammonia and nitrites are zero.:) Even better with detectable nitrates(though it should not be too high).:) Most neons are poor in quality due to mass production.