Need some fish disease help.

Twistersmom

No, the green is in the water. I see it in the buckets of water, during water changes.
I scrubbed the glass, when I did the tear down. Even now, when I change out the water, the glass looks clear, where the water has been removed.
I lost count of the number of times, I preformed water changes and changed out the carbon, to remove the acriflavine and to avoid the complete tear down. I almost cried, after the tear down and the water was still green.
The reason for treating the whole tank, at the time there was 6 infected fish. Too many to fit in my QT tank. Also feared that if I removed the sick, the disease would still spread on to the others. Now that it is only 3, I can manage to place them into QT.
Everything I have read, recommends 50% water changes for the rainbows. I have other tanks, where large water changes are not recommended, with the fish I have, and only change out 25% weekly.
I will do some more reading up, on Rainbow fish care.

bettababy

Another option would be to put fresh carbon in the QT tank filter, then do a 50/50 split of tank water with fresh clean water. This should resolve your issue quickly without causing too much shock to the fish. If you can borrow some filter media and gravel from the existing tank, that will also help to seed the QT tank. I would hold off on moving the sick fish to the QT tank for at least a couple of days after setting up this way because moving sick fish to a cycling tank will likely only cause more harm, and with any ammonia or nitrite reading in the QT tank we cannot medicate until those are gone.

Twistersmom

Thanks!
It will be a few days before I have the new medication, so I will setup the qt tank tomorrow, to prepare for their move.
Just in case, all meds are not removed from the main tank, I will go with the 50/50. Sounds a little safer.
I have some healthy tanks, that I can use to seed the cycle.
I have not read up on the new med yet, but I am guessing daily water changes will be needed. I will be sure to follow the directions on the bottle.

bettababy

I don't like to give out instructions for some of the meds other than to follow the directions because depending on what company has made them, some meds are bottled in various different concentrations. The same applies with methylene blue. It will depend on where it is manufactured and what concentration they use, so their specific meds should follow their specific dosing instructions.
Keep me posted and let me know how it goes.

Twistersmom

I ordered the malachinte green, should I have ordered the methylene blue? Its probably not too late to change my order.

bettababy

No, I was just using methylene blue as an example of other medications that change in concentration according to manufacturer. Sorry I that confused you. Malachite green is what you want.

cerianthus

I am not trying to bring more confusion but posting as precautioany measure on top of what BB suggested/posted.
Although both malachite green and methylene blue can be effective agents in treatment/preventive of cerain fish dieases, please do research on what it is and its toxicity effects on Species of Fish before applying.
I have used both agents ,even potassium permanganate, in combating diseases successfull but very close attention should be given, especially with malachite Green, IMHO.

Maracyn and Maracyn II is effective antibiotics but there are other effective antibiotics avail to treat various types of fish disease. Try researching other derivatives of tetracycline such as OxyTC, a terramycin.(maracyn II, if memory serves, is one of TC derivatives)
Also avail are sulfa based antibiotics along with other types of aminoglycosides, etc. etc etc.

If not sure, do a research backward.
First look up all antibiotics avail to hobby and look for main ingredients.
Using nomenclature of antibioticsimain ingredients, you can research what each specific antibiotic is most effective against.
Once you identify (even if it is crude results) the possible pathogens, you can look up symptoms each pathogen produce/develop on fish..
You will most likely come up with several different possible pathogen sfor your symptoms (Since many pathogens may produce same/similar symptoms to our naked eyes) but by eliminating other unsubstantiated disease signs according to your Rainbow's symptom(s), you should be able to derive with better educated guesses than most..

This may take time to accomplish but sooner you start, sooner you will have better solutions to most diseases in this hobby. And more pronounced solutions since these solutions are based on facts produced by sutdies in Fish Pathology.

Please be advised that I dont mean what our member suggests dont have any bases or misinformed. I dont mean that at all.
All I am suggesting is an ALTERNATIVE path to Fish Pathology via your own research w/o PhD degree in Fish Pathology.
Yes, It is a work but definitely will open bigger horizon in successful fish keeping, not just as treatment but also as a preventive measure.

Hope all goes well!

BTW, Just dont get MG/MB on your hand/skin. Wear surgical gloves if possible.

Twistersmom

Thank for the post cerianthus!

Fish disease, confuses me like crazy! Some many different diseases, with the same symptoms!
What would your recommendation be for treatment? Something that will work in a ph of 8.
I have no way of diagnosing this disease, to many different things, going on at the same time. I just noticed tonight, that one of the rainbows, has a string hanging from his mouth again. That makes it 4 sick fish again. The one with cloudy eyes, never developed any ulcers or stringy areas. Maybe, more than one disease going on at the same time?
I have given up on the maracyn & Maracyn-Two as treatment. If it was going to work, I think the fish would be well already.

1077

Twistersmom,

I might suggest that the amount of carbon and the quality of same can have an effect on removing medications and or dyes from our aquariums. I too run the Emperor filters and have long ago stopped using the disposable Rite size E filters in favor of plain old filter floss.
When I do need to use carbon, I would opt for a carbon such as KENT'S REEF carbon. I would place about a half cup to a cup in a nylon bag and place it in the filter compartment of the filter.
The amount ,and quality, of carbon offered in most filter cartridges is woefully inadequate in my opinion and some carbon seems to work better in my expierience. I do not know if you are using the carbon supplied in the cartridges that are recommended for the Emperor filters but thought I would offer you an option that you may or may not already be aware of.
Wish I could offer something useful with regards to the fish you are having trouble with but I believe one could do far worse than listening /following Bettababy's suggestions.I suspect that through her work ,she has much more expierience in dealing with fish related illnesses than many of us. I do hope your Rainbows get better.

cerianthus

Fish diseases are not just confusing but less studied/studied compared to reasearches done on human medicine.

Most common fish disease are well documented and treated effectively though.

The real problem/difficulty is correctly identifying its cause thus hard to find accurate remedy/solutions.

Dont know much about your fish history from the beginning thus hard to determine/recommend any suggestion for now.

Although I am sure you have no problem with ammonia (NH3), nitrite (NO2), Nitrate(NO3) or pH, but it wont hurt to check and document with date/time (very helpful if readings/events/actions/prognosis are well documented in determining the possible cause, not to mention for future references)

Do have few questions:
1. Any open sores?
2. Hazy/cloudy slime on the body? if so, Does hazy/cloudy slime comes off the fish occassionally or spreading/getting worse?
3. Any clamped/deteriorating fins, especially pectoral fins?
4. Last time you change the carbon
5. Any visible improvement after the last Mes? Was it combo of Maracyn/Maracyn II? If not, last med used?


Most antibiotic will breakdown with time/ high temp in the tank thus need several application needed to keep the optimal concentration of med, even for us (2 tab/pills per day for next few days and so on).
So active antibiotic presence diminished with time. Should perform water changes after med as you have done since inactive/broken down antibiotic themselves are pollutants. Water changes and high quality carbon should do the trick.

If you can post latest pic and answers to questions above, I'll see if i can assist but no promise. It is hard enough to diagnose the problem with fish in front me, it is close to impossible to diagnose accurately with some diseases via descriptions but good pics will definitely help.

I am suspecting combination of external primary parasitic infection with secondary bacterial infection.

Dont forget to post the readings/events prior to this infection(s), that is if available.

it is very helpful what environment these fish were exposed to which may have caused this problem and also possibilty of introducing new fish that was carrier of certain pathogens?

Possibilities are endless but let's try if you wish!

Pardon for more questions rather than answers but I am trying!