I'm not sure what's wrong really...but I'm using these meds. Good idea?
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I'm not sure what's wrong really...but I'm using these meds. Good idea?

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I'm not sure what's wrong really...but I'm using these meds. Good idea?
Old 05-30-2010, 06:14 PM   #1
 
Question I'm not sure what's wrong really...but I'm using these meds. Good idea?

1. What is the size of your tank?
55 gallon and 10 gallon

2. What are your water parameters? State the brand of test kit used.
Mardel (10 gallon) PH 6.6, Ammonia - 0.00 Around 80 degrees Fahrenheit. <-- My pregnant guppy/fry tank.
Seachem (55 gallons) PH 7.8, Ammonia 0.00. Around 72 degrees Fahrenheit.
Mardel (55 gallon) Alkalinity 180 ppm, Hardness 150, Nitrate 0.00, Nitrite 0.00.

Last test strip used on the 55 gallon....didn't have another for the 10 gallon. >.< Two days ago, it tested about the same. The mardel in the 10 gallon and the seachem in the 55 gallon are leave in PH and Ammonia testers.

3. Is your aquarium set up freshwater or brackish water?
Freshwater, with a little bit of salt. Don't know if that would consider it brackish or not. ^-^

4. How long the aquarium has been set up?
55 gallon, about 3 months now. Ten gallon, about two weeks.

5. What fish do you have? How many are in your tank? How big are they? How long have you had them?
Guppies, swordtails, lyretails, pleco, cory cats, mollies, goldfish, tetra.
55 gallon - around twenty-five. There are only four in my ten gallon.
None of them are bigger than two inches, as of yet.
Hard to say how long I've had them, since I've gradually acquired them all. I let my tank cycle for a month though, so at least two months.

6. Were the fish placed under quarantine period (minus the first batch from the point wherein the tank is ready to accommodate the inhabitants)?
No, retardedly, no. I didn't have the ten gallon, and didn't really think about it.

7. What temperature is the tank water currently?
55, 72 F. 10, 80-82 F.

8. Are there live plants in the aquarium?
Yes. Hornwort in the ten gallon, and a very wide variety in the 55 gallon (about one hundred plants total, if you could the stems of each one, lol.)

9. What filter are you using? State brand, maintenance routine and power capacity.
Marineland power filter in the 55 gallon. And in the ten gallon, the aqua-tech it came with.
Change out the filters every month or two.

10. Any other equipment used (aside from heater and filter which are two very important components of the tank)?
No. Will soon be getting a canister for the fifty five and an undergravel...still deciding.

11. Does your aquarium receive natural sunlight at any given part of the day? What is your lighting schedule (assuming you do not rely on sunlight for our viewing pleasure)?
Not fully natural, it's a little far from the window (to keep the temperature from going wacky in the summer and winter). I do have natural sunlight bulbs. 12 hours on 12 hours off.

12. When did you perform your last water change and how much water was changed? How often do you change your water? Do you vacuum the substrate?
The ten gallon gets at least a ten percent every week so far. The fifty five gets ten percent a week, and has had one fifty percent. I haven't vacuumed the substrate yet, that will happen when it hits four months (next month).

13. What foods do you provide your fish? What is the feeding schedule?
Regular tropical flakes, blood worms (on occasion), sinking pellets (for the cory cats and pleco). For the 55 gallon, every morning and night, small feedings. For the ten gallon (with the pregnant guppies) three small feedings throughout the day.

14. What unusual signs have you observed in your fish?
Had one of the female guppies, who was pregnant, suddenly become not pregnant, poop out this extremely thick dark poop, and die two days later.... no other strange signs. Though I could not believe the poop came out of her...it was the size of a large goldfish's poop! It wouldn't eat, and seemed to have Ich like problems; it rubbed constantly on the rocks before finally not moving. No Ich spots though.

15. Have you treated your fish ahead of diagnosis? If so, what treatments did you use? State your reasons for planning ahead of proper diagnosis.
I don't know what the heck is wrong and can't find anyone who knows. My other female guppies are starting to rub along the bottom, but aren't aborting? (I really don't know what happened to her babies, I know she didn't give birth to them). They are also still eating regularly. I'm terrified they'll end up like my last female guppy, and all of them had been in the 55 gallon tank for two months before moving to the ten gallon. So I'm treating the ten gallon as well, since my little goldfish is rubbing along the bottom and two of my male guppies have gotten lethargic like the female...eating, but definitely not as much.

I'm medicating with both Melafix and Pimafix. Will this ruin the cycle of my tanks, btw? I've gotten the 55 gallon to where it's practically perfect, and would hate to ruin it...though I would definitely like my fish to get better!
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Old 05-30-2010, 07:01 PM   #2
 
Wellllll...great news.....>.<

One of the blond guppies is doing the same thing. No weird poop, but she won't eat. It looks like her mouth is a little ragged, not too much so I could be imagining it. Just chilling at the top, barely moving, and watching the food float past her....she's not pregnant anymore either, now that I look. Very very tiny dark gravid spot, like a pencil dot.

I'm really not sure what's going through my ten gallon tank, but I just got these two blond guppies two days ago, right before my other guppy started acting funny. I'm really upset now...I have two females in there that are about to drop any day...and was very excited to be a grandmommy. Now it looks like I have to worry about losing all my fish, even the ones in the fifty five.... =( =( =( =(

Last edited by weareoceansaway; 05-30-2010 at 07:02 PM.. Reason: Poor spelling due to being upset. Grrr.
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Old 05-31-2010, 12:19 AM   #3
 
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I will do my best to help you but please be patient. I have a lot of questions I will need to ask in order to sort this all out. I can offer you some answers and suggestions right away, but other things will depend on how you answer the questions I need to ask.

First thing... the amount of salt in the 10 gallon tank? How much did you add? If the female guppies are the only fish in the 10 gallon tank, you can add enough aquarium salt to equal a total of 3 tablespoons in that tank. I will let you calculate how much more you have to add to bring it to that level. If you have more than that amount in the tank then you will need to do some daily water changes to thin it out.

Next thing... the test results you posted. Something is very off. If you are using test strips to determine nitrite and nitrate, that would be my first guess as to where the problem is. A 3 month old, 55 gallon tank, with 25 fish in it... fed daily with messy foods, and only 10% weekly water change with no gravel vacs yet... should be reading nitrate for sure. I'm going to strongly urge you to either obtain a set of liquid test kits for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate... or to take your water in to a lfs and have it tested, but ask them to write down the exact results. Offering "its fine" or "its normal" for results does nobody any good.

The scratching you are describing could be caused by any number of things, especially skin irritation. Skin irritation tends to come from problems with the water quality, such as high ammonia, nitrite, and/or nitrate. 10% each week is not enough of a water change with that kind of population in that size of a tank. 30% each week would be a more productive change, but for the immediate moment, considering the problems you're having, I am going to suggest 10% daily for the next 7 days or until we can get some accurate test results.

I'm not sure if anyone has told you yet, but a goldfish is not compatible with your other fish. Goldfish are cold water fish and extremely dirty. All of your other fish are tropical fish, meaning warm water. Is this a fancy goldfish or a comet? Comets can be quite aggressive and will stress smaller fish such as guppies and small tetras. The temp in your 55 gallon would be appropriate for the goldfish, but not for the other fish. The tropical fish should have 78 - 80F for the mixture you've listed. That temp is going to be too high for a goldfish, so you're going to want to relocate the goldfish as soon as possible. If you keep them all together at the current temp, your tropicals are going to die... if you raise the temp for the tropicals, the goldfish is going to die. Sorry, but thats how it works.

I'm also going to advise you to stop using the PimaFix and Melafix. The 10% daily water changes will remove the meds from the 55, as for the 10 gallon, you will want to do a 25% change twice over the next week, and make sure there is carbon in both filters to absorb any remaining medications. It is very dangerous to medicate fish if you don't know what you're medicating for. Wrong medications or medications used in poor water quality can be toxic to the fish. Also, not all meds are safe for all species of fish. Did you remove the carbon from your filters while you were using these medications?

And, for now, the last question... can you post any photos of the "sick" fish and at least 1 clear tank shot of each tank? A visual often helps a lot when trying to diagnose problems such as this via internet.

I will keep a watch for your reply. Once I know the answers to the questions I have asked, then I should be able to help further.
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Old 05-31-2010, 08:50 AM   #4
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettababy View Post
I will do my best to help you but please be patient. I have a lot of questions I will need to ask in order to sort this all out. I can offer you some answers and suggestions right away, but other things will depend on how you answer the questions I need to ask.
Thank you very much, I'm sorry if I seemed impatient, I simply wasn't sure if I had a knee jerk reaction and apparently I did. Kind of wanted to stop myself sooner than later, if you know what I mean. ^-^

Quote:
Originally Posted by bettababy View Post
First thing... the amount of salt in the 10 gallon tank? How much did you add? If the female guppies are the only fish in the 10 gallon tank, you can add enough aquarium salt to equal a total of 3 tablespoons in that tank. I will let you calculate how much more you have to add to bring it to that level. If you have more than that amount in the tank then you will need to do some daily water changes to thin it out.
I don't have any salt in the ten gallon. The fifty five gallon has the salt in it, then I was told by my local fish store that salt wasn't good for the aquarium and haven't done it since. After reading posts on here, I'm surprised my fish store told me it was bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bettababy View Post
Next thing... the test results you posted. Something is very off. If you are using test strips to determine nitrite and nitrate, that would be my first guess as to where the problem is. A 3 month old, 55 gallon tank, with 25 fish in it... fed daily with messy foods, and only 10% weekly water change with no gravel vacs yet... should be reading nitrate for sure. I'm going to strongly urge you to either obtain a set of liquid test kits for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate... or to take your water in to a lfs and have it tested, but ask them to write down the exact results. Offering "its fine" or "its normal" for results does nobody any good.
I'm on my way out the door after responding to the rest of the post. The fish store I frequent is usually empty of the liquid test sets, but I think it's time I ordered some online then. I can at least get my water tested there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bettababy View Post
The scratching you are describing could be caused by any number of things, especially skin irritation. Skin irritation tends to come from problems with the water quality, such as high ammonia, nitrite, and/or nitrate. 10% each week is not enough of a water change with that kind of population in that size of a tank. 30% each week would be a more productive change, but for the immediate moment, considering the problems you're having, I am going to suggest 10% daily for the next 7 days or until we can get some accurate test results.
Is that the same for the ten gallon as well? The thirty percent, I mean? I will also go ahead and do that today instead of my usual ten percent...I do all my changes on Mondays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bettababy View Post
I'm not sure if anyone has told you yet, but a goldfish is not compatible with your other fish. Goldfish are cold water fish and extremely dirty. All of your other fish are tropical fish, meaning warm water. Is this a fancy goldfish or a comet? Comets can be quite aggressive and will stress smaller fish such as guppies and small tetras. The temp in your 55 gallon would be appropriate for the goldfish, but not for the other fish. The tropical fish should have 78 - 80F for the mixture you've listed. That temp is going to be too high for a goldfish, so you're going to want to relocate the goldfish as soon as possible. If you keep them all together at the current temp, your tropicals are going to die... if you raise the temp for the tropicals, the goldfish is going to die. Sorry, but thats how it works.
Oh, I really didn't know that. I looked up guppy temp on the internet and it had said from 72-78 so I thought the goldfish would be alright. Guess my naivete is showing through.... since I'm heading to the store I got him in, I'll be bringing him back and raising the temp in my tank. Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bettababy View Post
I'm also going to advise you to stop using the PimaFix and Melafix. The 10% daily water changes will remove the meds from the 55, as for the 10 gallon, you will want to do a 25% change twice over the next week, and make sure there is carbon in both filters to absorb any remaining medications. It is very dangerous to medicate fish if you don't know what you're medicating for. Wrong medications or medications used in poor water quality can be toxic to the fish. Also, not all meds are safe for all species of fish. Did you remove the carbon from your filters while you were using these medications?
See, I wasn't sure about the mela and pimafix. I removed the carbon filter from the ten gallon while medicating, but have yet to medicate my 55 gallon. I've read up a lot about the two meds since I bought them and knew they weren't good for some fish, so I was hesitant to put it in the big tank until someone answered here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bettababy View Post
And, for now, the last question... can you post any photos of the "sick" fish and at least 1 clear tank shot of each tank? A visual often helps a lot when trying to diagnose problems such as this via internet.

I will keep a watch for your reply. Once I know the answers to the questions I have asked, then I should be able to help further.
I don't have the best camera in the world, but I will do my best. I should have taken a picture of the dead female guppy, but didn't really think that one through. Thank you so much for your response, and once I get back from the store, I'll post the results of the water!
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Old 05-31-2010, 10:22 AM   #5
 
Okay, so I tried to take some pictures of the individual fish, but they just came out really blurry and probably wouldn't do a whole lot of good. I did, however, take a picture of both tanks in their entirety.

Also, here's the stats for my tanks.
10 gallon:
Ammonia - 0
Nitrates - 20
Nitrites - 1.0
Chlorine - 0
Alkalinity - 130
PH - 8.0 (which means my little in tank PH monitor doesn't fricken work.... >.<)

55 gallon:
Ammonia - 0
Nitrates - 20
Nitrites - 0
Chlorine - 0
Alkalinity - 120
PH - 7.2 (Again, those PH monitors suck)

I also took back the goldfish. It was a Calico Ryukin, btw. Very pretty. I'm also raising the temp in the fifty five gallon to at least 78 degrees, but slowly since my fish have been at 72 the past two months....is that a good way about upping the temp, or should I just put it up to 78? I don't want to shock the crap out of them.
I'm also guessing, with the nitrites at 1.0, that the nitrites are kinda high. They didn't tell me they were high at the fish store, but then again I told them to write it all down and the guy there didn't tell me anything (I guess he assumed I knew if it was bad or not). I'm going to wait until I hear a reply to do the water changes just to get some more input on my situation. ^-^
Again, thank you so very much for your help; from your posts, you were very knowledgeable and not just 'quoting from books'. I'm really trying to learn, but so many different websites and books have different information and sometimes, it's just confusing. Again, thank you.
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Old 05-31-2010, 10:55 AM   #6
 
I forgot the pictures.
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Old 05-31-2010, 01:22 PM   #7
zof
 
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Nitrites are too high being at 1 ideally you would want to keep them at below .25 but even below .50 is ok..... since the 10 gallon has just been up for 2 weeks its probably in the middle of a cycle so you should do partial water changes every day until its done. I'm not sure but 15-20% should be good until that number comes down, as you don't want to remove all the nitrites as that will stall the cycle process.

Beyond that I will let the experts help you more.
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Old 05-31-2010, 02:03 PM   #8
 
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I'm on my way out here, but thought I'd check in on you quick. A few things I can add here...

Any nitrite is toxic to fish, and will irritate the skin. It appears to me that the water quality is indeed the cause of most of your problems. Daily 10% water changes should help until that subsides. Don't start the 30% each week until the water quality is balanced and your test results are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and something shows up for nitrate. The goal will then be to keep the nitrate low... 20 or less. Always good to remember that smaller, more frequent water changes are much safer than less frequent larger ones. Too much change at a time is dangerous for the animals.

Because the 10 gallon is still cycling I would also stick to smaller, more frequent water changes there too. 5 - 10 % each day if you see the fish scratching... and go really easy on the feedings during this time (in both tanks). Once each day and only what the fish can completely finish in 1 - 2 minutes. If you see food falling to the bottom and not eaten in that first 1 - 2 minutes, you're adding too much food and should vac that out asap and cut the amount of food in 1/2.

In your 10 gallon... don't expect to see any fry as it is currently in the photo. There is not enough decor or plants in the tank to shelter the fry. The females will eat them if they can find them, and it happens really fast. If you want a good example on how dense the decor or plant life should be in that tank, take a look at my aquarium photos (click on my aquariums here below my name) and take a look at my 90 gallon, my 65 gallon...
You should barely be able to see anything through the plants. The fry need to be able to hide from the adults from bottom of the tank all the way to the surface. 10 gallons isn't a whole lot of space for them to hide, but when it is mostly bare such as yours, they don't stand a chance. While they may be able to fall down into the substrate area, they would be confined to that and that will prevent them from getting enough food, among other things. The spaces in between the rocks and glass marbles is also enough that the female fishes can probably get in there pretty good to eat fry.

You are also correct about slowly raising temp. Again, changes should always be gradual.

Sounds like you should be ok if you can keep up with water quality and decoration in the fry tank. The only other thing I'd like to mention is about guppy fry... and the number of them you can expect. Each female is capable of producing 50+ fry every 30 days, and the female can store sperm in her body for up to 3 spawns of fry without needing a male present. That is a lot of fry, and it will create havoc in a 10 gallon tank when it comes to space and waste issues. Please be careful. When the female guppy gives birth, there is more than just the fry coming out of her body. As with any other animal or people, there are body fluids that are also released... and this will also pollute the water and you can't "see" it to watch for it.

The other thing when breeding guppies is to have an outlet for the fry before you start breeding them/saving the fry. With 2 female guppies, you could expect 60 - 100 fry each month, minimum, if they all survive. That is alot of fish... and you will quickly run out of space. The fry are capable of breeding by the age of about 6 weeks, which is not healthy for the females because their bodies are just not ready at that age. Breeding them at too young an age can cause permanent physical damage to the female fish. That's something to always be careful of. Usually they are sexable by age 3 - 4 wks, and should be separated males in 1 tank and females in another to prevent the early breeding. (also, imagine if 30 of 60 fry each month are female, and they get pregnant.. 30 females birthing 30 - 50 fry or more every 4 wks... that would be 900 - 1500 fry at minimum each month. (see how quick that can happen?)

I wish you the best of luck. If you need more help please post it here and I and the others here on the forum will do our best to help you.
Have a great rest of your weekend!
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Old 05-31-2010, 05:42 PM   #9
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettababy View Post
I'm on my way out here, but thought I'd check in on you quick. A few things I can add here...

Any nitrite is toxic to fish, and will irritate the skin. It appears to me that the water quality is indeed the cause of most of your problems. Daily 10% water changes should help until that subsides. Don't start the 30% each week until the water quality is balanced and your test results are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and something shows up for nitrate. The goal will then be to keep the nitrate low... 20 or less. Always good to remember that smaller, more frequent water changes are much safer than less frequent larger ones. Too much change at a time is dangerous for the animals.

Because the 10 gallon is still cycling I would also stick to smaller, more frequent water changes there too. 5 - 10 % each day if you see the fish scratching... and go really easy on the feedings during this time (in both tanks). Once each day and only what the fish can completely finish in 1 - 2 minutes. If you see food falling to the bottom and not eaten in that first 1 - 2 minutes, you're adding too much food and should vac that out asap and cut the amount of food in 1/2.

In your 10 gallon... don't expect to see any fry as it is currently in the photo. There is not enough decor or plants in the tank to shelter the fry. The females will eat them if they can find them, and it happens really fast. If you want a good example on how dense the decor or plant life should be in that tank, take a look at my aquarium photos (click on my aquariums here below my name) and take a look at my 90 gallon, my 65 gallon...
You should barely be able to see anything through the plants. The fry need to be able to hide from the adults from bottom of the tank all the way to the surface. 10 gallons isn't a whole lot of space for them to hide, but when it is mostly bare such as yours, they don't stand a chance. While they may be able to fall down into the substrate area, they would be confined to that and that will prevent them from getting enough food, among other things. The spaces in between the rocks and glass marbles is also enough that the female fishes can probably get in there pretty good to eat fry.

You are also correct about slowly raising temp. Again, changes should always be gradual.

Sounds like you should be ok if you can keep up with water quality and decoration in the fry tank. The only other thing I'd like to mention is about guppy fry... and the number of them you can expect. Each female is capable of producing 50+ fry every 30 days, and the female can store sperm in her body for up to 3 spawns of fry without needing a male present. That is a lot of fry, and it will create havoc in a 10 gallon tank when it comes to space and waste issues. Please be careful. When the female guppy gives birth, there is more than just the fry coming out of her body. As with any other animal or people, there are body fluids that are also released... and this will also pollute the water and you can't "see" it to watch for it.

The other thing when breeding guppies is to have an outlet for the fry before you start breeding them/saving the fry. With 2 female guppies, you could expect 60 - 100 fry each month, minimum, if they all survive. That is alot of fish... and you will quickly run out of space. The fry are capable of breeding by the age of about 6 weeks, which is not healthy for the females because their bodies are just not ready at that age. Breeding them at too young an age can cause permanent physical damage to the female fish. That's something to always be careful of. Usually they are sexable by age 3 - 4 wks, and should be separated males in 1 tank and females in another to prevent the early breeding. (also, imagine if 30 of 60 fry each month are female, and they get pregnant.. 30 females birthing 30 - 50 fry or more every 4 wks... that would be 900 - 1500 fry at minimum each month. (see how quick that can happen?)

I wish you the best of luck. If you need more help please post it here and I and the others here on the forum will do our best to help you.
Have a great rest of your weekend!
Okay, I put more plants in the ten gallon after I did the water changes. The temp in the 55 gallon is now at a steady 76 and I will raise it again before I go to bed. I also added a few more plants to my 55 gallon. I also, as I was shopping for plants, found an API test set and now have that on hand!

About the pregnant females, I read that they can have a TON of fry (don't call em the million fish for no reason... ^-^), which is one reason it's more sparsely planted. I put in a few more plants only because I want a few fry to survive. I'm hoping to eventually start breeding for quality, not quantity, but that's wayyyyy down the line when I can afford the bigger tanks. As for now, my females and males will be separated and I'll only be keeping a few of the fry themselves... ^-^

I'm not going to use the melafix and pimafix anymore and have put the carbon filter back in the 10 gallon.

Thank you for all your help! It always seems like, when you really believe you know enough, it comes back and knocks you upside the head. Thanks so very much!
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Old 05-31-2010, 07:49 PM   #10
 
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those rocks in the 10 gallon will trap a lot of poop so i would recomend picking them up and vacuming the bottome every water change.
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