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ICH- two weeks of treatment, its still hear and 20 dead fish

This is a discussion on ICH- two weeks of treatment, its still hear and 20 dead fish within the Tropical Fish Diseases forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> yeah I have live plants so copper is out. I am pretty sure it is ich, but I am sure I could be wrong. ...

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ICH- two weeks of treatment, its still hear and 20 dead fish
Old 03-30-2007, 10:51 AM   #11
yeah I have live plants so copper is out.

I am pretty sure it is ich, but I am sure I could be wrong. It is white spots on the tail and a bit on the body, they are white not gold or dusty like velvet. Does that help.
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Old 03-30-2007, 01:37 PM   #12
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There are other diseases that look just like ick... yet are not ick. A picture and any other symptom descriptions would help a lot.
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Old 03-30-2007, 02:21 PM   #13
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That could be fin rot or a couple other things as well as ich. As for the plants, if i had ich that bad I would bite the bullet and remove all my plants and treat if it was ich.

One other way to help us diagnose this is to describe the way the fish are acting: Rubbing the rocks constantly, laying there and acting lythargic, losing their fins or have pitted tail fins, any signs of mouth damage and anyhting you can tell us that is out of the ordinary.
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Old 03-30-2007, 09:48 PM   #14
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I want to try to clear up some misconception about the UV Sterilizers. Some of what mush posted is accurate, but not all of it. (sorry mush)
For starters, UV Sterilizers will kill most of the bad stuff, but not all of it, and the fish don’t build an immunity to ALL of the bad stuff the UVS kills, such as parasites, like ick.

Fish lice is a good example of this. A fish that experiences a lice infestation can recover, and the lice can be killed with either medications or UVS if they are drawn through it. But, once a fish has an infestation of lice, they do NOT build an immunity to them or the damage they cause. Gill flukes is another example, and so is ick. If exposed again, the fish can get sick again, whether there has been UVS for a period of time or not. (One more note about parasites such as gill flukes and fish lice… and ick… these parasites need a living host in order to survive. Without a living host, the parasite dies and the infestation is gone unless there is a living host for it to feed from.)

Now, if a UVS is being used and run all the time, then the things that the fish can and can’t build an immunity to don’t exist in a high enough population to cause an outbreak, thus there should be no reason for concern about future issues with those illnesses. With the UVS, if it is run all the time, then the pathogens it is designed to kill won’t be present in a high enough quantity in the water at any point because the UVS kills them if somehow they are introduced. This is the biggest reason UVS is used and so effective. Many people run UVS full time on both fresh and salt water, and I, myself have run them full time, and those turn out to be some of the healthiest tanks in the end.

As for the UVS breaking down… the things it protects against would need to be given a stressed host before they could/would become problematic again.

Again, ick is an example here. If running the UVS, the ick is killed. The fish don’t develop an immunity to ick, even without the UVS. One of the largest causes of ick is stress… but a UVS that breaks down doesn’t cause stress for the fish, so the breakdown of a UVS wouldn’t cause a problem to occur.

If you choose to use humans as an example, head lice is a good one to compare it to. The human body doesn’t develop an immunity to head lice. It is a parasite, like ick, fish lice, gill flukes, etc etc.

Now, another example of why a UVS can be better than meds… we’ll use a dog for an example. Think about fleas on a dog. We treat the dog with a medication of some sort to kill the fleas. Fleas are known to become immune to some of these medications, and then when the dog is infested again, it takes a different medication to cure the problem, or more medication. This continues throughout the life of the dog. Fish parasites work the same way. Ick, lice, flukes, etc… can build an immunity to medications, making them difficult to get rid of if the fish are repeatedly exposed and medication is used to treat them. With UVS, there is no immunity built up by the parasite, and it is able to wipe that parasite out anytime it appears.

The other added benefit to the UVS is that the fish don’t get sick from it. Some medications, if used often enough, if overdosed, if water quality isn’t good… can be toxic to the fish. UVS is completely safe and doesn’t cause stress to the body of the fish, which medication can do. Stress, as was mentioned, can cause illness and also weaken the immune system. UVS can’t be “overdosed” and works with all water params, thus remains the healthiest and most effective way to prevent illness in an aquarium.

Now, so there is no misconception here, please also note that UVS is not designed to control or destroy bacterial and/or fungal infections on a fish. It can handle water born viruses, but not a virus that is already in the fish. So, there ARE some things that even UVS is ineffective against, at which time medications are then called for.

I hope this helps in understanding UVS a little better, and helps for making an informed decision for anyone considering purchasing one.
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Old 03-30-2007, 10:35 PM   #15
Hello- Thanks for all of the advice. I can't seem to get a picture of the little buggers to save my life. What has died includes tetras, rummy nose tetras, chery barbs and SAE's. What does not have the disease are my angels, gouramis, serpae's, cories, danios and my chinese algae eater.

The fish have white spots and when close to dying they are missing tails but I can't tell if someone is eating them or if it is part of the disease. Years ago I have goldfish with ich and this looks the same but I could be wrong, I have never seen velvet.

As for taking out my plants, if I have to I can but I am HEAVILY planted and they are nice and rooted. It would cause a lot of issue and we are talking $200 in plants.

Thanks to your advice I went out today and bought a coralife uv steralizer, do I use that and medicate or something different? Thanks.
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:20 PM   #16
Raisng the water temp along with using meds will get rid of the problem if it is ich. Ich is a parasite that must go thruough stages in order to survive. You did not mention whether you raised the tanks temperature when dispensing the meds. Nor did you state whether you were running a filter containing carbon. If either of the two previous state pertain to your situation, Turn up the heat to around 84-86 degrees Fahrenheit and turn off any carbon filtration. If your problem is still with you after treatment, I would suggest trying MellaFix and/or PimaFix. These are two meds I could not do without.
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:40 PM   #17
...why are you using salt for freshwater fish? its so alien for them it makes them more stressed.
and is it possbile its not ich? because it surprises me it took your pleco meaning thier very hardy.
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Old 03-31-2007, 12:04 AM   #18
Fuzz, some fish,such as mollies, seem to prefer a little aquarium salt in their tank. Other fish, such as puffers, datnoids, archerfish, and scats seen in our lfs's freshwater tanks, are brackish fish and can tolerate, even prefer, a more saline tank. African cichlids, such as the Rift Lake fish, also like a harder water composition, and will tolerate the addition of salt. A tablespoon for each 5g of water is usually adequate.
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Old 03-31-2007, 12:09 AM   #19
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I would use only the UVS with no medications. I would put the carbon back into your filter, do a small (25%) water change, and run just the UVS to treat this problem. I would then run the UVS all the time to avoid more issues in the future.
Keep us posted and let us know if you need further help.
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Old 03-31-2007, 12:58 AM   #20
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Neither PimaFix nor Melafix is for ick treatment. Those would be used for bacterial and fungal issues...which this clearly is not.
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