ich spreading regardles of treatment (sorry very long post)
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ich spreading regardles of treatment (sorry very long post)

This is a discussion on ich spreading regardles of treatment (sorry very long post) within the Tropical Fish Diseases forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Hi all, I made the mistake of bringing home some new Black Neon tetras whose thank mates had ich and now my tank has ...

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ich spreading regardles of treatment (sorry very long post)
Old 04-15-2013, 10:12 AM   #1
 
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ich spreading regardles of treatment (sorry very long post)

Hi all,
I made the mistake of bringing home some new Black Neon tetras whose thank mates had ich and now my tank has ich too. The first spots showed up Thursday morning and I began treatment with Kordon's Ick Attack Thursday night (although I performed a 25% water change after the addition of medication). Since then, I have been dosing with Ich Attack 2x daily, have raised my temperature from 78 to 85-86 over the course of 4 days, and have reduced my lighting to about 6 hours a day from 10 hours.

On Thursday morning, all 5 of the Black Neons had some spots. Now, 1 had only a spot or 2, 1 has a few spots on the fins, 2 have several spots but seem to be imporoving, and the last one looks fairly aweful, the spots are decreasing but its fins look a big ragged and slime coat looks kind of funny.

My five Colombian tetras each have a few new faint spots today. They were swimming slightly sideways as if to dislodge something a little bit for the past 2 days previously.

The four remaining ghost shrimp (one passed away last night, not sure why) and numerous pond snails all seem fine.

Water parameters as of today are Ammonia .25ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 0ppm, pH 7.4 (light has been on for about 3 hours), GH 3 degrees, KH 5 degrees (all tests performed with API liquid tests)
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:27 AM   #2
 
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answers to questions

What is the size of your tank? 40g breeder (3' long)

2. What are your water parameters? State the brand of test kit used.
Ammonia .25 ppm (from the tap it is between 0 and .25, I added Aquaclear's ammonia remover packet to my filter with limited success, any suggestions?)
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 0ppm
pH 7.4 (usually closer to 8 after lights go out)
GH 3 degrees (is this an issue)
KH 5 degrees
I used API liquid test kits
3. Is your aquarium set up freshwater or brackish water? freshwater

4. How long the aquarium has been set up? has been running for 2 months first fish/ plants added i month ago

5. What fish do you have? How many are in your tank? How big are they? How long have you had them?
4 ghost shrimp (number 5 passd away last night) 1/2" each (1 month)
numerous pond snails
5 Colombian tetras 1 1/2" each (2 weeks)
5 Black Neon tetras 1" each (5 days)

6. Were the fish placed under quarantine period (minus the first batch from the point wherein the tank is ready to accommodate the inhabitants)? no :(

7. What temperature is the tank water currently? 85-86 (from 78 over 4 days)

8. Are there live plants in the aquarium? Yes (:

9. What filter are you using? State brand, maintenance routine and power capacity.
AquaClear 50 foam, bionodes, and ammonia remover chips inside, prefilter sponge over intake
10. Any other equipment used (aside from heater and filter which are two very important components of the tank)? No

11. Does your aquarium receive natural sunlight at any given part of the day? What is your lighting schedule (assuming you do not rely on sunlight for our viewing pleasure)?
A little bit of sunlight in the tank corner for a few hours in the afternoon, normally 10 hours of light, now 6

12. When did you perform your last water change and how much water was changed? How often do you change your water? Do you vacuum the substrate? 4 days ago, 25%, once a week, anything on surface of substrate but do not poke siphon into substate

13. What foods do you provide your fish? What is the feeding schedule?
New Life Spectrum small fish pellets daily
Formula One flake daily (Black Neons too small for pellets)
half of New Life Spectrum H2O stable wafer alternated with 2 Omega One shrmip pellets

14. What unusual signs have you observed in your fish?
Ich spots, other fish are developng spots regardless of treatment

15. Have you treated your fish ahead of diagnosis? If so, what treatments did you use? State your reasons for planning ahead of proper diagnosis.
raised temperature from 78 to 85-86 over 4 day span
decreased light period from 10 to 6 hours
dose 2 daily with Kordon Ich Attack

sorry about the random water quality questions, if need be, I can repost them in the Freshwater Aquariums section

thank you all in advance!
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:02 AM   #3
 
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Welcome to the forum

I've only ever used ich attack once, and it didn't work so I never used it again. I've found quick cure to work very well. However, for several years now I have used heat and heat alone, which has never failed me. 85-86 is the low end of the heat treatment - I would bump it up to 86-87. Some strains are more heat resistant than others, so when you are playing on the edge of the treatments effective range, you risk the possibility of it not working as well. Me? I do 88 degrees.

It takes several days for the heat treatment to work. After 4 days, you should start to see improvement. After 7 days, the fish should be virtually spot free. Keep the heat up for the full 2 weeks. I don't know if it's absolutely necessary to do that, but I've not seen a reason to experiment to determine otherwise. It's easy enough to just finish the 2 weeks. The treatment STARTS when the temp gets to 86 degrees, so if you spent 4 days raising the temperature, those 4 days don't count. I raise the temp to 88 in one day (the heaters in my quarantine tanks are precalibrated to 88, so I just plug them in). It's never a good idea to assume because you set the temp to something that that is what it will be - heaters vary in their precision.

Also, moving forward, it's generally a bad idea to use multiple treatments at once. Pick one and see it through. If you don't get the results you want, give the fish a couple days to recover before you start the next. Back to back to back treatments are rough on the fish. In my opinion, if you are able to give them some time off between treatments, they handle it better.
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:24 AM   #4
 
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Agree with jaysee. Ich does take a while to clear up so hang in there.
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Old 04-15-2013, 02:43 PM   #5
 
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Thank you both, I'm turning the heat up to 88 and crossing my fingers, I'll keep you posted
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:01 PM   #6
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishy592 View Post
Thank you both, I'm turning the heat up to 88 and crossing my fingers, I'll keep you posted
I would first clear the water of the medication by throwing carbon in the filter. If you notice the fish hanging out at the surface then that indicates you need more aeration, which can be accomplished by either adding an air stone or by lowering the water level, to make more of a waterfall. I don't ever use air pumps, but most people do. Since you are already at 86, and the fish are presumably fine, 88 shouldn't be a problem.
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:30 PM   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysee View Post
Welcome to the forum

I've only ever used ich attack once, and it didn't work so I never used it again. I've found quick cure to work very well. However, for several years now I have used heat and heat alone, which has never failed me. 85-86 is the low end of the heat treatment - I would bump it up to 86-87. Some strains are more heat resistant than others, so when you are playing on the edge of the treatments effective range, you risk the possibility of it not working as well. Me? I do 88 degrees.

It takes several days for the heat treatment to work. After 4 days, you should start to see improvement. After 7 days, the fish should be virtually spot free. Keep the heat up for the full 2 weeks. I don't know if it's absolutely necessary to do that, but I've not seen a reason to experiment to determine otherwise. It's easy enough to just finish the 2 weeks. The treatment STARTS when the temp gets to 86 degrees, so if you spent 4 days raising the temperature, those 4 days don't count. I raise the temp to 88 in one day (the heaters in my quarantine tanks are precalibrated to 88, so I just plug them in). It's never a good idea to assume because you set the temp to something that that is what it will be - heaters vary in their precision.

Also, moving forward, it's generally a bad idea to use multiple treatments at once. Pick one and see it through. If you don't get the results you want, give the fish a couple days to recover before you start the next. Back to back to back treatments are rough on the fish. In my opinion, if you are able to give them some time off between treatments, they handle it better.
+1
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:20 AM   #8
 
white spots on my neons

i bought 10 neon tetras from local fish shop about 2 weeks ago and when we were putting them in the tank we noticed one had no tail at all and his fins were nearly all gone, he struggled to swim and kept getting sucked up against the end of the filter, by the next day he was permanently stuck against filter and looked pale, sadly we lost him. last week we got 5 phantom tetras and all was going well but i got up one morning and one of the phantoms was dead at top of the tank and parts of his tail and fins were missing. now today i have just noticed that some of my neons have little white spots on about the size of a grain of salt, the phantoms all look ok and the neons are all swimming around fine, are eating well and dont appear to be losing there colour. my tank is a 130 litre tank, regular water changes and tested regular with no problems there. what do i do now? i also have some guppies in the tank and a small plec
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