help!!!
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help!!!

This is a discussion on help!!! within the Tropical Fish Diseases forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> I have had 4 platies die and i don't know what is going on. Please tell me what's happening the water has been tested ...

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Old 01-27-2013, 10:10 AM   #1
 
Exclamation help!!!

I have had 4 platies die and i don't know what is going on. Please tell me what's happening

the water has been tested and is fine
there are no new fish
tank is cleaned on a monthly basis
no aggression among fish
here is what happens step 1 back arches and tail stops working step 2 fish barly shows itself even during feeding time step 3 fish dies
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:26 PM   #2
 
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Sorry to hear about your fish. I know it's a lot of questions but please answer as many of these as apply so that someone can try to help. There's a lot that can go on in a tank so the more info. you give us, the better.

1. Size of tank?

2. Water parameters
a. Ammonia?
b. Nitrite?
c. Nitrate?
d. pH, KH and GH?
e. Test kit?

3. Temperature?

4. FW (fresh water) or BW (brackish)?

5. How long the aquarium has been set up?

6. What fish do you have? How many are in your tank? How big are they? How long have you had them?

7. Were the fish placed under quarantine period (minus the first batch from the point wherein the tank is ready to accommodate the inhabitants)?

8. a. Any live plants? Fake plants?
b. Sand, gravel, barebottom?
c. Rocks, woods, fancy decors? Any hollow decors?

9. a. Filtration?
b. Heater?

10. a. Lighting schedule? What lights are used?
b. Any sunlight exposure? How long?

11. a. Water change schedule?
b. Volume of water changed?
c. Well water, tap water, RO water?
d. Water conditioner used?
e. Frequency of gravel/sand (if any) vacuumed?

12. Foods?
How often are they fed?

13. a. Any abnormal signs/symptoms?
b. Appearance of poop?
c. Appearance of gills?

14. a. Have you treated your fish ahead of diagnosis?
b. What meds were used?

15. Insert photos of fish in question and full tank shot if necessary.

Read more: Diagnosis Form - Read this before you post.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:33 PM   #3
 
Romad,
Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately we lost another one today. Please see my responses embedded below and the uploaded photo of tank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romad View Post
Sorry to hear about your fish. I know it's a lot of questions but please answer as many of these as apply so that someone can try to help. There's a lot that can go on in a tank so the more info. you give us, the better.

1. Size of tank? 35 gal hex

2. Water parameters - We've had water tested at LFS multiple times before and after deaths of fish. It always comes back good. Below are the resluts from our test at home tonight.
a. Ammonia? did not register
b. Nitrite? 2.5
c. Nitrate? 0
d. pH, KH and GH? PH Broad Range - 7 - 8.5
e. Test kit? Interpret Pond Master Test Kit (we have a large koi pond out back as well)

3. Temperature? 70

4. FW (fresh water) or BW (brackish)? FW

5. How long the aquarium has been set up? 6 months

6. What fish do you have? How many are in your tank? How big are they? How long have you had them?

3 cory catfish - 1.5" ,2 for 4 months, 1 for 1 month
3 blue gourami - 2" , 1 for 4 months, 2 for 3 months
5 monk tetras - 1-1.5", 6 months
4 neon tetras - "XL", 5 months
1 Angel - 6", 5 months,
3 Cherry Barbs - 1.5", 5 months
3 Harlequin Rosebarbs - 1", 3 months
3 Platties - 1.5" - (originally had 2 plumetails, 2 coral, 2 platties with large plume on head, and 2 sunsets - now only 1 coral - 1 month and 2 sunsets (one possibly pregnant) - 2 months



7. Were the fish placed under quarantine period (minus the first batch from the point wherein the tank is ready to accommodate the inhabitants)? No, just regular floating to regulate temp

8. a. Any live plants? Fake plants? many fake plants
b. Sand, gravel, barebottom?gravel
c. Rocks, woods, fancy decors? Any hollow decors? 2 hollow pirate ship halfs, 1 hollow treasure chest, one solid anchor

9. a. Filtration? Yes - Cascade 200 biofalls filter
b. Heater? Yes

10. a. Lighting schedule? What lights are used? Top tank lights only in morning during feeding. Room has ceiling light
b. Any sunlight exposure? How long? No direct light but sunlight throughout the day (Pacific NW)

11. a. Water change schedule? monthly
b. Volume of water changed? 1/3 water
c. Well water, tap water, RO water? tap
d. Water conditioner used? Yes - Aqueon Water Conditioner
e. Frequency of gravel/sand (if any) vacuumed? Vacuumed when tank is cleaned monthly

12. Foods? Tetra Tropical Flakes, Nutrafin Max pellets, HBH shrimp pellets
How often are they fed? Daily

13. a. Any abnormal signs/symptoms? no - fine one day, then back arching & fins clamped, loss of use of tail, then down at the bottom hiding, death - same pattern for all the platties so far
b. Appearance of poop? normal (long strings platties are so famous for)
c. Appearance of gills? no noticable difference

14. a. Have you treated your fish ahead of diagnosis? last month some ich in tank
b. What meds were used? Microbe-lift - Hertana

15. Insert photos of fish in question and full tank shot if necessary.

Read more: Diagnosis Form - Read this before you post.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:02 AM   #4
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakman View Post
Romad,
Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately we lost another one today. Please see my responses embedded below and the uploaded photo of tank.
How do you clean your tank? You have fish that have different water requirements and you may be overstocked. Read the fish profiles in this forum for your fish and see what each fish needs for water and other things. Do you know your KH GH? You may have soft water and Platys need hard water.

Last edited by marshallsea; 01-31-2013 at 04:10 AM..
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:22 AM   #5
 
taller skinny tanks need aeration from lack of top surface area of the water to release co2 into the atmosphere? weekly water changes......?
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:13 AM   #6
 
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Hi Dakman. Thank You for all those answers!! It does really help us.

First I need to clarify... This tank is 6 months old? I am wondering why you are showing an extremely high reading of NitrIte @ 2.5?? You said all numbers are normal. NitrIte needs to be Zero. So this is not normal unless you made a typo..?
A properly cycled tank's bacteria changes the Ammonia to NitrIte and then to NitrAte. You will see spikes in both Ammonia and NitrIte which will both drop to zero and then NitrAte will generally sit around 20 ppm.
The fact that you are seeing NitrItes means... I highly suspect, over cleaning and causing mini cycles. High Am and NI readings will cause clamping and high fish death.
So we must ask you specifically what are you doing when you "clean" the tank? Please describe for us? Make sure you differentiate Tap and Tank water where approp.

Also if you are having mini cycles then a monthly water change will not dilute the high readings. High numbers like this require daily changes to bring those numbers down.
Prime will also detoxify in emergencies. It costs a little more but goes a HUGE long way. You won't need a huge bottle but it is great to have in your tank supply cupboard. It is all I use now.

I looked up your filter... do you have a separate Internal Sponge AND fiber/carbon unit? And if so how do you handle these on cleaning day? I ask because good bacteria grows on surfaces and in those filter components. If you rinse out all these items with TAP water and not old TANK water or De-chlor water, then you kill off the good bacteria in those filter components. Add to that one day's cleaning of vacuuming the gravel, possibly taking a scrubby to the tank walls, i.e. algae, washing rocks? It all adds up to killing off the good bacteria and causing a cycle which leads to the fish deaths. Can you confirm or not if this is the case?
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:18 AM   #7
 
Did Make a Typo

Jakiebabie,
I did make a typo. It was 0.25, not 2.5 on the nitrite. I had originally typed in all of the information and then accidentally hit the back arrow and had to retype it all. So sorry about the misinformation.

Now that I read the information about the filters in our biofalls, it occurs to me that I did make a change to our cleaning routine about three months ago. Before that I did not realize the filters needed to be changed and had not changed them or rinsed them at all. About 3 months ago, we were at our LFS and they informed me that the charcoal filter needed to be changed monthly and the sponge rinsed. So my new routine begins with removing the old charcol filter and replacing it monthly and rinsing the sponge filter with tap water. However, I accidentally tossed the sponge component two cleanings ago when we got ich and had to remove charcoal filter for the medicine to work. I tried to purchase a new one at the LFS but they said it really didn't make a difference and would be expensive to special order. (My mistake for not ordering it anyway.)

After I remove the old filter, using a small rubber tube with a bulb to create suction, we remove tank water into a bucket and suction waste from bottom of gravel. I do not use the commercially made gravel vacuums.

Once water is about 1/3 down, we replace the water with tap water that has conditionner added to it (that has also been sitting to bring it up to room temperature). We live out in the country and, although we are NOT on a well, our county does not add chlorine or anything to the tap water.

On our last cleaning, I also scrubbed the walls for the first time with our magnetic scrubber tool and rinsed all the plants out, again with tap water. It did not even occur to me that I was probably killing the good bacteria in the tank. I feel so horrible now as we had such a wonderful, healthy environment for the first four months. Hopefully your ideas will rectify the situation and we can keep the fish we have now without any further issues.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakiebabie View Post
Hi Dakman. Thank You for all those answers!! It does really help us.

First I need to clarify... This tank is 6 months old? I am wondering why you are showing an extremely high reading of NitrIte @ 2.5?? You said all numbers are normal. NitrIte needs to be Zero. So this is not normal unless you made a typo..?
A properly cycled tank's bacteria changes the Ammonia to NitrIte and then to NitrAte. You will see spikes in both Ammonia and NitrIte which will both drop to zero and then NitrAte will generally sit around 20 ppm.
The fact that you are seeing NitrItes means... I highly suspect, over cleaning and causing mini cycles. High Am and NI readings will cause clamping and high fish death.
So we must ask you specifically what are you doing when you "clean" the tank? Please describe for us? Make sure you differentiate Tap and Tank water where approp.

Also if you are having mini cycles then a monthly water change will not dilute the high readings. High numbers like this require daily changes to bring those numbers down.
Prime will also detoxify in emergencies. It costs a little more but goes a HUGE long way. You won't need a huge bottle but it is great to have in your tank supply cupboard. It is all I use now.

I looked up your filter... do you have a separate Internal Sponge AND fiber/carbon unit? And if so how do you handle these on cleaning day? I ask because good bacteria grows on surfaces and in those filter components. If you rinse out all these items with TAP water and not old TANK water or De-chlor water, then you kill off the good bacteria in those filter components. Add to that one day's cleaning of vacuuming the gravel, possibly taking a scrubby to the tank walls, i.e. algae, washing rocks? It all adds up to killing off the good bacteria and causing a cycle which leads to the fish deaths. Can you confirm or not if this is the case?
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:41 AM   #8
 
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Don't feel bad, we have ALL done it!! Myself included for years I used to do a twice annual tear down and scrub out. And then wonder why I lost a few fish after that. I thought this was normal. (She bangs head on table) Doh!!! My current tank is 3 years old and I admit I have never even scrubbed the sides.

So again... ok so at least your filter sponge is being rinsed in tap water but it is WELL water right, so no chlorine? So personally I would rinse that and reuse it several times... and change out the carbon part monthly. If you could step up your water changes to bi-weekly or best would be weekly you will see a difference in your fish. This way too you are diluting any build up that might be happening without your knowledge.
I am really lazy and it is hard for me to do the weekly WC's also! But I adopted a Turtle and big sick Goldfish with almost no tail left about 3-4 months ago. Weekly water changes due to 2 messy creatures and she has a full beautiful tail back! Gorgeous coloration and has grown 2 inches in length! I have done nothing else different than the previous owner... just clean water!! (She was with 3 other GF that died due to the owner not having the time and I'm sure the Ammonia was thru the roof).
Let us know here in this thread if you have any more issues! If you ever see clamping of fins... do a water change! or 2 over the next couple of days after seeing distress. Good Luck!
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