Goldfish affected by ick, fin rot, swimbladder!! HELP
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Goldfish affected by ick, fin rot, swimbladder!! HELP

This is a discussion on Goldfish affected by ick, fin rot, swimbladder!! HELP within the Tropical Fish Diseases forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> This is my first post, I am looking all over for immediate, knowledgable assistance! Here's my info. My current aquarium is 2 gallons. It ...

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Goldfish affected by ick, fin rot, swimbladder!! HELP
Old 07-23-2008, 02:04 AM   #1
 
Goldfish affected by ick, fin rot, swimbladder!! HELP

This is my first post, I am looking all over for immediate, knowledgable assistance! Here's my info.

My current aquarium is 2 gallons. It is a freshwater tank, and has been set up for approximately 3 months. There are two fish in the aquarium, both goldfish. One is an Egg Fish, the other is a fantail. There are no live plants, and the current temperature is unknown. My tank was a gift and has no filter, and no CO2 unit. My aquarium only receives indirect sunlight for about 9 hours during the day. The last water exchange was 90% yesterday. I perform changes every week and a half. My fish are fed nutramax goldfish flake food 2 times daily, only what they can eat in two minutes. I have a small bulb (not too bright) which is on for about 10 hours per day.
MY CONCERNS : I have had three fish, keeping two at a time. I first had my egg fish and a ranchu lion, and the ranchu contracted what i now know to be swimbladder disease and died. I waited about a week and a half, then introduced a new fantail goldfish from Petcetera into my tank which seemed quite healthy at the time. I did not know about having to quarantine them until last night when I stared looking for answers about my fish's illnesses. Since getting the fantail this last friday, there has been a severe outbreak of ick on both fish. I visited petcetera and purchased their anti-ick treatment, and the morning after using it i found that the fantail had been relieved of many of it's white spots, but that it's tail was now discintegrating. The eggfish (the original fish) has not improved at all, and simply sits on the bottom of the tank. Further, since arriving home tonight after a full day of the fish being exposed to the ick treatment (which was dosed in ABSOLUTELY the correct amount for the tank) the fantail is now exibiting symptoms that look like constipation and swimbladder disease, simply floating unbalanced and oblivious at the top of the tank.
MY PRIORITY is saving the Egg Fish, as I dont expect the fantail to live much longer, comparing it to how my ranchu lion lasted (the fantail is looking exactly the same as the day before the ranchu lion died). That means that the most important thing is treating his ick.
MY QUESTION is this...I just bought a bigger tank with a filter today (5 gallon with an Aquaclear filter). Should I separate the egg fish and treat him separately since he seems to only have ick while the other has ick as well as fin rot and swimbladder? and if so, is ick treatment best with medication, or is the salt method more effective.
IF SOMEONE COULD GIVE ME A DAY TO DAY SCHEDULE so that I know what to add when, and when to be changing the water, that would be much appreciated.
My water hasn't been tested for nitrate and whatnot, as I don't know how to do that, so I haven't got any testing equipment.
The last fish I bought was the now motionless and constipated fantail goldfish, and it was behaving perfectly normally in the petstore tank.

I hope someone can help me soon! as for now, I'll be changing the Egg fish into the new tank and hoping for the best. THANK YOU
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Old 07-23-2008, 04:01 AM   #2
 
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try this out and let me know how it goes..

since no ones helping you out, i thought i would so you can act fast. ich is a very common infection for fish. i personally would set up your new tank, let the water in the tank sit for atleast 3 days with the filter running ( this is to allow the chlorine in tap water to escape eventhough goldfish are hardy fish )
As for the ich salt helps to kill it. i would NOT suggest regular table salt because that its fine grain and contains i believe carbon? in it .. use a canning and pickling salt or i think its called sea salt.. because its more coarse ..use about a teaspoon per gallon or im sure aquarium salt will work from your pet store and follow the directions included on the little carton it comes in.. another thing i would do is water changes, probably once or twice a day to eliminate as much of the free swimming stage of the ich as possible..just when you go to add more salt consider how much water was taken out and how much is left in so you dont over do it with the salt..i would do this for about a week because when the ich is on the fish, nothing can kill it but dont worry, eventually it will "fall off" so thats why water changes are important because your main goal is killing the "free swimming" ich thats in the rest of the tank.. i would see how this goes and if your fish seem "cured" after all this i would transfer them to the new tank you had sitting with the filter going.. i then would super clean out the old tank, possibly with actual table salt and hot water so you can have yourself a "quarenteen" tank for your next new fish.. i hope i covered it good enough for you and if theres questions dont hesistate to private message.. good luck playing doctor!! let me know how it goes..
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Old 07-23-2008, 04:15 AM   #3
 
thank you so much for your reply. just like you said, since nobody had said anything, here's what i went ahead and did :

I set up the new tank and left the carbon out of the filter since other websites recommended that when treating ick. I slowly introduced the one fish in...until the bag tipped over and he just swam right in...oops. He seems like he's getting on okay though, he's swimming alot more than he was in the other tank...actually, he's pretty much constantly swimming, as opposed to sitting on the bottom doing nothing. I suppose is this partially due to the amount of room he now has...5 gallons instead of 2. Anyway, I had put water conditioner in already to remove chlorine and whatnot, it's also supposed to coat the fish to help protect and heal it and neutralize heavy metals (good, since my tap water has high iron...?) I also added less than a quarter of the amount recommended of petcetera anti-ick treatment. Is it still safe to put salt in? Let me know...:)

As for the other fish, I have to assume that he's far worse off, considering that he's floating sideways at the top of the other tank. I've had my egg fish longer, and i'd rather put more effort toward rescuing him, as the other one seems completely doomed. I'm going to do a water change for him tomorrow and hope for the best.
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Old 07-23-2008, 05:17 AM   #4
 
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I read your post and would respectfuly suggest that you cut feeding to once a day and only feed as much as you SEE the fish eat in one minute. You indicated twice a day and enough food for two minutes? Small aquariums are very unforgiving when it comes to maintaining water quality and goldfish produce a LOT of poo which = ammonia add to that excess food that may be laying onthe bottom which also = ammonia and the water quality in a small tank quickly goes south. 90 percent of fish health problems are directly related to water qualityor lack thereof .Try counting from 120 backwards. If you are feeding enough food for fish to eat for this length of time I have no doubts that ammonia levels in your water are a contributer to your problems. A quality test kit will allow you to closely monitor the conditions in your tank which in my view is IMPERATIVE in such a small enviornment.Ideally one goldfish would be housed in an aquarium of no less than 20 gal. I am not saying that your fish won't surrvive but the maint. performed by you will need to be performed regularly without fail. This should in my view consist of 20 percent water changes with conditioner added before water is placed into the tank evey two days. 90 percent water changes are too much change at once and will stress the fish. Smaller regular water changes are better for fish as opposed to large infrequent changes. Rinse out the filter cartridges in the old water you take out not tap water and replace it when it begins to fall apart. Lastly I would urge you to provide the goldfish with the largest tank that you can afford and have space for. The survival of the fish in their current quarters will depend entirely on your sustained efforts in providing good clean water. :) PS I would also cut down the lighting to help keep alage in check and keep blinds pulled on the window. You could be unknowingly heating the water to uncomfortable temperatures for the fish. Good Luck.
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Old 07-23-2008, 05:37 AM   #5
 
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the fish introduced to the new tank is swimming more freely my guess because he is out of the ich infested water so i would still be weary of keeping an eye on the new tanks water and prob. still do a frequent water change but doesnt have to be as often, just to make sure you flushed the ich completely.. i personally never added sea salt to any of my tanks with a fish in it but my dad did yesterday to his little hospital tank (which happens to be mine because his fancy goldfish is fighting a case of ich ) the fish seems fine but me personally i would add aquarium salt ( the dosage recommended on the carton, small cartons at like petsmart are like $2) since its made for fish tanks and you already have your fish in there..just remember, clean water usually means happy fish..
on the carbon in the filter note,i heard it wasnt good for plants somewhere and i have multiple tropical planted tanks and i heard that if used for a long period of time it increases the risk of a fish getting "hole in the head disease" which is a hole different disease effecting head and lateral line erosion so i use carbon in my filter pads sometimes and sometimes dont, more times i dont and i dont change the pad until the water overflows the filter ( idk what kind of filter you have ) because helpful bacteria eventually form..BUT since your tank has been having ich problems i would try keeping everything as clean as possible..and continue water changes..
As for the fish left in the 3gal. tank dont loose hope.. i also read somewhere if i fish recovers from ich it doesnt catch it again or its really hard to..(dont know how true that is) and ich is a common parasite that most likely effected half the people's fish on this forum atleast 1 in their fish tanking careers.. you might want to continue the water changes on this tank as well.. possibly set up a tuberware with water and add your conditioners or aquarium salt to this .. let this sit for about 3 days to rid it of chlorine ( just be careful mosqiutos dont lay larvae because it will be stagnant water ) and on the 2 night or 3 day take alittle water from the 3 gal tank put it into a bag, carefully net your fish out, put him in the same bag, seal the bag with alittle air and float it in this tuberware.. while the fish is in the bag floating, drain the 3gal. tank..DO NOT PICK IT UP and dump it, this will break the seals of the cualking and the tank will possibly leak.. anyways drain it ( start a syphon, or use a cup and scoop out the water ) i would then clean the tank thoroughly.. do NOT use soaps of any kind because they will leave behind residues that will be harmful to the fish when you refill the tank with water.. i would remove the gravel if you have some and through rinse it...and wouldnt return it back to the tank just yet...if the tanks glass i suggest alittle amonia and a clean scrub sponge because it will rinse clean ( just make sure you rinse it enough ) .. you can even use hot water and salt to try to kill the ich left in the tank.. just be carefull of not scratching the glass with the grains of salt.. i think amonia is a better bet..anyway rinse the tank out very good and fill it with the preconditioned water in the tuperware, since the fish was floating in the bag its already acclimated to the water temp. i just wouldnt suggest letting him swim out because this would "mix" the old tank water from the bag with the all new clean water, so you can net him carefully from the bag. like i said i would keep the gravel off the bottom of the clean out tank for awhile just when you go to put it in, remember gravel displaces water and if your water levels too high it will over flow it..seems like alot but it might save your fish, you never know.. and if you go to your local fish store, be weary of what the suggest ( they arnt ALWAYS wrong, just seem to be more concearned with making a sale then making a happy customer ) and like i said i know it seems like alot but i hope all this work doesnt turn you away from the fabulous hobby of fishkeeping, but it truely is and can be tons of fun!! again, let me know how everything goes .. and good luck.
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Old 07-23-2008, 05:46 AM   #6
 
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and yes 1077 hit it on the head with a small tank, like i said in my first post goldfish will grow to the size of the tank.. AND not to add that the protozoan ich in the smaller tanks has better chances of finding a fish to host itself on..and always clean water=happy fish ( and plants! )
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Old 07-23-2008, 05:58 AM   #7
 
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I am not a believer in moving already stressed or sick fish. Were it me I would follow the directions on whatever ICH medications I was using . This may require treatment for as long as ten days. I would NOT tear down the tank or clean with ammonia. If you feel you must , Then I would use warm water and vinegar and rinse everything thouroughly. If the sick fish dies I would leave the tank alone, turn up the temp. to 82degrees and let it run for a couple weeks. The ICH parasite will die without a host (fish) to sustain it. Then I would remove all the decorations clean them as described with vinegar and water or two tablespoons of bleach per five gal of water and rinse hell out of them . Let them set out for a day then change the filter if there is one, put the decorations back in and you have a small hospital or quarantine tank. I would NOT disturb the gravel as this is where the majority of beneficial bacteria needed to break down ammonia and other harmful chemicals is found. :)
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Old 07-23-2008, 09:52 AM   #8
 
thank you all for your input. I'm sad but not surprised at all to report to you that the fantail goldfish (also known as flapjack) has died. He didn't even bother to flip upside-down. Sadly, this is exactly what happened to my ranchu lion, so i guess at least i knew it was coming when I saw how it was acting. Sadness :( Time to clean out the 2 gal.

In the other tank, my egg goldfish, Buckley, is still quite alive, and is fighting to move around as much as possible, though it seems ick has still got his lower fins restricted, and I've noticed early finrot on his tail. If it is that he survives, I suppose that I should keep him solo? He is in a 5 gallon tank.

In terms of all the basic things I seem to be missing, I pray my fish and you all can forgive me and help me learn, because I haven't had fish since living with my mom at 10. And I didn't really do anything before. :) Just watched.

From what you all have said, my next step of action will be to add aquarium salt to the tank, which I'll be picking up after work (spent more than 150.00 in the last two days on these little guys!). And my dear old Flapjack will be disposed and the tank cleaned with vinegar and water. I'll let you know though, I'm not able to change the temperature in this tank...it's a very simple one, with only a bubble maker deal and no room for any other appliance.
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:36 PM   #9
 
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Ok, well a 5 gallon bowl isn't good enough for a goldfish, sorry. But they have HUGE bio loads. And you probably have the worst water quality in the in your 3 gallon.

This is a very good salt treatment for ich, and its day to day steps. Very easy to follow. http://www.fishforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7705

Sorry I missed this post before or I would have helped you out sooner.

Ps, you don't take the media out of the filter. But just cut a little on the flossy side of the media and shake the carbon out and then you have a reusable filter media. But if you have meds in your tank now don't do that because you'll need the carbon to remove the medications from your tank.
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Old 07-23-2008, 09:25 PM   #10
 
So today once I got out of work, I went to the pet store and FINALLY talked to somebody who actually knew what they were talking about, unlike the 'help' at Pet Cetera, Total Pet and Walmart. Bah. But yes, so what she said to me is that in the case of a severe infection, a combination of aquarium salt and PIMAfix can be used. Does this sound correct?

Also, before I do anything, I'm going to take a gander at the instructions for salt treatment. This is very severe, I'm afraid, he's lost more of his tail since this morning. :(
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