Goldfish added to guppy tank
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Goldfish added to guppy tank

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Goldfish added to guppy tank
Old 10-15-2006, 03:38 AM   #1
 
Goldfish added to guppy tank

HI, this is my first time here, just found this forum upon facing my problem.
I know ppl at forum are experts and so I hope I can find some answers.

I have a 10 gal tank for over a year, starting with a pregnant female guppy ONLY now I have probably over 50 guppies total (w/o buying a single guppy). I kept donating them to my local pet store to keep the aquarium from overcrowding.

The water condition had always been perfect, all my guppies were all healthy..until yesterday.

My roomate bought 3 goldfish, while I was waiting him choosing his 1st pets, I saw this blind goldfish (lost 2 eyes) kept being nipped by other goldfish, I asked the owner what he'd do and he said he'd probably euthanize the fish so I told him I wanted to get the fish and he gave it to me free!

anyway, I asked him about adding goldfish to guppy tank and he said not to worry about it since he's blind he wouldnt eat the guppies.
I actually was more worried the guppy mobbing him since they;re bigger in size. anyway, I was really happy since the goldfish could finally live at peace w/o the need of running here and there trying to hide. But since this morning the water has been really really cloudy. I noticed there were a lot of waste, and tested the water, the nitrate level shoot up to the "toxic" level. I changed the water (about half the tank)...waited several hours, the water still showed high levels of nitrates. I changed the water again....and now it;s cloudy than ever.
I dont want to change the water again because it would stress the fish out, but the nitrate level is still high, and the guppies start to look stressed...they usually swim around, now they are gasping for air...or standing still.
Could this be because the addition of the goldfish? could adding one goldfish change the habitat by that much?
what's the best thing I could do w/o giving up the blind goldfish? I'm planning to donate my guppies tomorrow...but what's going on w/ my aquarium, what's causing the clouding?? and how do i get rid of it quickly?

btw, my filter is....i'm no fish expert I dont know what kind of filter that is...I know it;s not gravel filter...it's the normal kind of filter with the carbon and sponge..???
I also have extra air bubble because I know goldfish loves fast moving water w/ air bubbles..am i right?

anyway, any comments would be greatly appreciated.
sorry for the very long thread....
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Old 10-15-2006, 03:41 AM   #2
 
and oh..
I just have gravels and lots of fake plants and rocks (caves) as decorations..if that's any good information.
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Old 10-15-2006, 04:42 AM   #3
 
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Hi and welcome aboard, Tinkerbell.
Glad you could join us.:D

I will point out several things to you.:)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkerbell
anyway, I asked him about adding goldfish to guppy tank and he said not to worry about it since he's blind he wouldnt eat the guppies.
Wrong info. Any fish being blind will still make use of other senses. The main issues here are the compatibility and space.

Goldfish are coldwater fish and guppies are tropicals. Tropicals and coldwater will never mixed. Guppies if kept in cold water conditions tend to become lethargic and will experience clamped fins.
Guppies would require you a heater once winter starts(if your area does experience winter). Goldfish will not require that.
Goldfish+heater=Death

In a 10 gallons tank, no goldfish should ever be placed in there. You will be given an option. Either you upgrade the tank or return the goldfish to the lfs.
Either options, your goldfish will still have to go. Goldfish tend to reach 25 cm max size but if yours is a fancy species, then 15 cm would often be the max and your guppies will still be eaten.

Quote:
But since this morning the water has been really really cloudy. I noticed there were a lot of waste, and tested the water, the nitrate level shoot up to the "toxic" level. I changed the water (about half the tank)...waited several hours, the water still showed high levels of nitrates. I changed the water again....and now it;s cloudy than ever.
Goldfish will poop a lot and this would mean very high level of nitrates which both fish won't tolerate. If your tank hasn't cycle, then expect very high ammonia.
Cloudy water means bacterial bloom. This is caused by your goldfish pooping too much wastes in all of a sudden. A 10 gallons tank still will never fit for them.

Quote:
btw, my filter is....i'm no fish expert I dont know what kind of filter that is...I know it;s not gravel filter...it's the normal kind of filter with the carbon and sponge..???
Seems your filter is too insufficient for the goldfish. You have to upgrade the tank and buy a more efficient filter. If not, you have to carry out several water changes just to dilute high level of nitrates.
Carbon is not used until you want to remove the odor, stains, meds and tannins(leached by driftwoods) in the tank.
Quote:
I also have extra air bubble because I know goldfish loves fast moving water w/ air bubbles..am i right?
Nope. They prefer still waters but good aeration will do rather than making too fast currents. I'd say you moved that goldfish in a 30 gallons tank minimum without adding any more goldfish. If not, a large tank with sufficient filtration or in a large pond will do.:)
Quote:
I just have gravels and lots of fake plants and rocks (caves) as decorations..if that's any good information.
Caves are unnecessary since neither of your fish will make good use of it. You have to replace fake plants with live ones to eliminate nitrates. Live plants will control high levels of nitrates but you still need to carry out water changes even if you have live plants.
Quote:
sorry for the very long thread....
That's fine. At least, you tried to post as much information as possible.

My advice would be "Do a research before attempting to keep a fish". This will ease out any possible future problems.:)
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Old 10-18-2006, 03:54 PM   #4
 
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[quote="Blue"][color=blue]Hi and welcome aboard, Tinkerbell.
Glad you could join us.:D



Seems your filter is too insufficient for the goldfish. You have to upgrade the tank and buy a more efficient filter. If not, you have to carry out several water changes just to dilute high level of nitrates.
Carbon is not used until you want to remove the odor, stains, meds and tannins(leached by driftwoods) in the tank.
Quote:
I also have extra air bubble because I know goldfish loves fast moving water w/ air bubbles..am i right?
Carbon is used also to remove fish waste from the water. Carbon will soak up ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels, and should always be used when possible. Most standard hang on filters will come with a carbon cartridge, this should be changed every 30 days, as carbon can only soak up so much before it needs to be refreshed.

Nope. They prefer still waters but good aeration will do rather than making too fast currents. I'd say you moved that goldfish in a 30 gallons tank minimum without adding any more goldfish. If not, a large tank with sufficient filtration or in a large pond will do.:)
Fast moving water won't harm the goldfish unless it is so fast they have problems swimming through it. The biggest reason for the "bubbles" in a goldfish tank is to serve as extra oxygen supply. Goldfish use a lot more oxygen than most fish, this added aeration is usually a good thing. The bubbles can also help to cool the water if the temp gets too warm.

Quote:
I just have gravels and lots of fake plants and rocks (caves) as decorations..if that's any good information.
Caves are unnecessary since neither of your fish will make good use of it. You have to replace fake plants with live ones to eliminate nitrates. Live plants will control high levels of nitrates but you still need to carry out water changes even if you have live plants.
Fair warning, if you move to live plants, goldfish are vegetarian fish, and will eat most plants. Try using species of anubias, they tend not to bother them because the leaves are thick and waxy. The other species of plants the goldfish tend not to eat are the onion plant varieties.
I would leave the decorations in the tank, as ALL FISH need hiding places, and caves can be good for this. The rocks, if you stack them, can create spaces between them, which provides territory... aka shelter. The more decorations in the tank the safer and more peaceful the fish will be, and the less the stress levels.
The rest of the advice I see as all good advice, goldfish should never be kept in a 10 gallon tank. 30 gallons will start them out, but they are messy and grow quickly, so 30 gallons won't usually last more than a year with only 1 goldfish. Ultimately, to keep this goldfish long term, expect to need at least 75 gallons for 1 fish, 90 gallons for 2 goldfish.
Some things that can help your situation:
Add an extra filter media to your filter to help soak the nitrate levels faster without hurting the water quality. Medias such as polyfilter or purapad are great for this. Simply cut a piece big enough to put into your filter alongside of the other media. With polyfilter, change the piece after 3 days, and be careful not to use it for more than 2 wks at a time. This will soak the levels faster than the purapad, but it will also drop your pH level if used for too long. Purapad will drop the levels a little slower, but you can leave it in the filter for up to 7 days at a time initially, and incorporate it into your regular filter media safely. Longterm use of the Purapad is safe. The makers of the Purapad media also have another called Nitrate Lock, and this is a bit more expensive, but can be recharged using tap water and table salt, so it goes much further and targets specifically the nitrate levels. If a new tank is a little way off and you wish to keep the goldfish, using the NitrateLock would be my first suggestion, along with daily water exchanges of 10%.
Go easy on the food, only every other day what the fish can finish within 1 minute is enough to keep it healthy and will help cut down the waste levels. If this is a fancy goldfish, be sure to use sinking pellet food. If the fancy goldfish has to gulp food from the surface they tend to gulp a lot of air which can cause swim bladder problems, and those can become permanent and lethal.
Good Luck with it, and let us know if you need further help!
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Old 10-18-2006, 03:55 PM   #5
 
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For information about filtration and some of your other issues, you can visit my website at http://aquariumworld.20m.com
The link at the bottom for "Maintenance made easy" should help a lot.
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Old 10-18-2006, 11:23 PM   #6
 
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bettababy seems to have summed up most of it except carbon won't help suck out the nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia. That is from something called the nitrogen cycle which only time can really fix except with a goldfish in there it will probably never go away without more space to diffuse. nitrate is taken out by water changes but do smaller ones. a 15% water change every week or two is better than a huge one ever. besides that bettababy has good advice.

in contradiction to blue. heaters don't kill goldfish. if you crank the heat up to 90 degrees yes the goldfish will probably die but overall a heater in a controlled range is good. goldfish are usually in cooler water but are absolutely fine around 74 degrees.
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Old 10-19-2006, 12:24 AM   #7
 
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Actually, carbon WILL soak ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate from the water. I have done the experiments, worked with the manufacturers, and consulted with the lab techs at some of the biggest pet industry manufacturers about this. The biggest reason for nitrate reduction is because of the ability to soak ammonia. The nitrogen cycle is the biological breakdown of ammonia to nitrate, decrease the ammonia content, thus you decrease the nitrate content. Feel free to call somewhere like Tetra Products tech support line and ask them to explain it, or Marineland Products. You can find these numbers listed on any of their products. Carbon is an example of chemical filtration, the nitrogen cycle is an example of biological filtration, and the sponge is an example of mechanical filtration. For a better explaination of the 3 types of filtration, please visit http://hofferstropiclife.com/fwmaintenance.htm
Hang on filters are created to offer all 3 types of filtration for an aquarium, thus the use of carbon. Any filter company on the market offers some kind of tech support line, if you call them and ask about using the carbon, they will explain it in technical detail for you, and some may even offer to send you a printed explaination. Another option is to go to the home page of the link I posted above and give the store a call. These people are some of the best in the USA for aquatic care. The general manager's name is Joe, and he's an ecologist. He can answer all of your water chemistry questions if you ask.

in contradiction to blue. heaters don't kill goldfish. if you crank the heat up to 90 degrees yes the goldfish will probably die but overall a heater in a controlled range is good. goldfish are usually in cooler water but are absolutely fine around 74 degrees.[/quote]
90 degree heat is sure to kill a goldfish, no "probably" about it. Put simply, they cannot handle that kind of heat, they are a cold water fish. They can survive in 74 degree water, but if the water is too warm, it will begin to cause physical disabilities in the fish. The biggest problem with heated water in a goldfish tank is oxygen depletion. The warmer the temp the less the oxygen supply. Goldfish are known for their large consumption of oxygen compared to the average tropical fish. Keeping them at 74 degrees may not be lethal, but long term can cause health problems and may also shorten their life span. The ideal temp for a goldfish tank is 65 - 68 degrees farenheit. If the tank is warmer than that, adding circulation and/or air stones will help to replenish the oxygen supply, just be sure the water flow doesn't cause the fish distress when attempting to swim through it.
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Old 10-19-2006, 07:16 AM   #8
 
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i understand the different types of filtration and that carbon helps suck this stuff up but in this case that isn't going to solve the problem. with huge water changes the water doesn't have enough bacteria so that needs time to reproduce before the rest of it will have much of an effect. i also understand that 74 isn't great for them but its also not going to kill them, in this scenario they don't really have much of an option but to keep it at a low tropical level to keep the guppies. best thing to do would be split the tank and setup another tank for the goldfish.
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Old 10-20-2006, 01:45 AM   #9
 
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I did not suggest that using carbon would resolve this problem. If you read back, I stated that I agreed that a goldfish should never be kept in a 10 gallon tank. However, sometimes there are things we can do to buy some time to fix a situation, and the use of carbon and other filter media, along with a lot of small water exchanges, daily, may help to buy a little bit of time while the solution is being worked out.
Along with carbon, I would suggest other filter media like Polyfilter or PuraPad, and NitrateLock to help get things under control, temporarily.
The reason I mentioned the carbon was to correct what Blue had said about carbon not being needed other than to remove meds, ordors, and stains from the water. Carbon IS needed, and the power filters on the market that include the carbon mean for it to be used in the filter regularly. It may not resolve this issue, but it can help to some degree.
I hope that clarifies things for you.
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