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Big tank problems....*sigh*

This is a discussion on Big tank problems....*sigh* within the Tropical Fish Diseases forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Lyzza, I am so sorry to hear that your in distress. Although I don't have much to add in advice. I am rooting for ...

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Big tank problems....*sigh*
Old 07-28-2012, 07:54 PM   #11
 
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Lyzza, I am so sorry to hear that your in distress. Although I don't have much to add in advice. I am rooting for you and your fish.
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Old 07-29-2012, 08:33 AM   #12
 
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=.=" oh great... that's what what i witnessed in my aquarium .i kept vacuming the gravel as well just like you when i first started till i noticed some of the fishes getting dropsy.when i stopped completely and started treating the tank it has been disease free till now 2 years later.till today i no longer do vacuming.
i'm sorry if it wasn't the correct answer and i wasn't helping you but it worked for me so i thought and hoped it would work for you too.oh well since my guesses cannot even be deemed educated guesses i will leave you with the pro's. good luck and i'm sorry again. i din't have any bad intentions and they weren't guesses they were more to what i experienced.
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Old 07-29-2012, 09:54 AM   #13
 
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Right!!!!!!!! Firstly I must have a bit of a rant....... I have seen simalar posts so many times like this its astonishing! The simple cause of this problem and many other related ones is a lack of knowledge about the nitrogen cycle. Yes the tank is cycled and doing well according to water tests but with vacuuming the gravel every ten days there is so little stable and established bacteria in the tank that the parameters are actually fluctuating wildly and quickly at the gravel layers of the tank, which is an anaerobic area and so prone to fast changes!
You see with any ecology system in the wild, changes happen not over night, but over months, years and sometimes millenia.... if you keep hoovering the gravel there is a change every 10 days by the sound of it.
My point is this.... its not what you do that counts all the time... sometimes its what you dont do! And in this case you are doing to much.

Now what to do about the situation.... first off dont do too much..... to a great extent thats the problem.... I would NOT dry out the bog wood as this does not sterilise it it merely kills of the beneficial bacterial growth that is , especially at the moment, absolutely critical. Secondly Do not treat with methylene blue as there is nothing in the problem to indicate that it will eb of any use at all, it will simply upset the biochemical balance of the tank.

Treat the tank with metronidazole and a 1/3 strength dose of malachite green if you can. Do the full dose and dont skip any days.
Pristella species tetra are now mainly captive bred and are a hell of a lot stronger than people think so dont worry about the metronidazole but there is a fair bit of evidence to suggest that malachite green CAN cause a reaction..... so just the 1/3 dose.
Message me if you need any help :)
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Old 07-30-2012, 01:39 AM   #14
 
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Thank you Hail Fire..I could use all the rooting i can get! =]

Thanks for your help, Snappy!
Im still confused. Gravel cleaning is..bad? o.O
I was under the impression that that was how you got rid of excess food, and poop...
How else do you remove it? I do have two plecos, so there are some strings of poo.
I also dont have alot of gravel in the bottom of my tank...probably a half inch. Could this be a problem?
When i redo my tank, Im getting play sand, or some kind of sand for my tank..I plan to have an inch and a half to two inches?
Is the healthy bacteria amount different in sand and gravel?

And as for treating the tank, it has NO fish in it, NO decorations, though the filter has been kept running.
When you say 'treat the tank' do you mean the way it is? Would i be able to keep the bacteria i have in my filter?
Its not for lack of money that i dont have the meds, its the lack of available options.
Its not out of wanting that im considering dumping everything and starting from scratch.
The pristellas weren't included in this cross contamination at all. They are all doing great, thanks for the advice on the medicine if i ever actually have to medicate them!

My number one problem/question is what is the best way to sterilize my tank, and the decorations, and filter.
I will be throwing away my wood, and already have a smaller log that will give the plecos what they need as far as dietary. Ill be looking for a cheaper piece of malaysian wood, as Ive read that mopani often get a fungus growth?

I have the next two days off, and plan to do some major tank renovating, so id like to be able to know my game plan my tomorrow afternoon. I have a few tanks ill do before the big one, but id like to get this started, cause the sooner i get it started, the sooner i can get my healthy fish tank back together!

Im leaning towards adding the 1/4 cup of bleach, letting it run for two days, then emptying it, flipping it over on my stand [which is hollow] and letting it dry for 3 maybe four days. Ill then add some water, scrub the tank, empty it, let it dry for 2 days, then fill her up! During this time, the filter will be following the same thing. WITHOUT the filter media.
After that, is a whole nother issue...and while ive got my tank cleansing, i can worry about everything else..

Last edited by LyzzaRyzz; 07-30-2012 at 01:47 AM..
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Old 07-30-2012, 02:25 AM   #15
 
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Ok first things first..... NO BLEACH!!!!!!!! .... Under no circumstances add bleach to any equipment or tank that is intended for fish use!!!!!!!!!!!!! I CANNOT EMPHASIZE THIS ENOUGH!!!!!!
Bleach contains sodium hypochlorite which is extremely toxic to fish and associated bacteria.... If you use bleach you will... And I MEAN WILL.... Have ongoing problems in the tank long term because its nigh on impossible to get rid of completely!!!!!!

Ok that out the way, you ask if sand has more or less bacteria than gravel, and the answer is that sand does have a greater bacterial colony because it actually has a greater surface area for the bacteria to live on. There is such a thing as a fluidized bed filter which takes bacterial advantage of this phenomenon.

Hoovering the gravel is not a bad thing no, but we have to strike a balance between what's good for the tank and what's aesthetically pleasing... And hoovering tends to be a bit on the drastic side.... It tends to upset the balance of the bacteria in the gravel. So I'm not saying stop hoovering but just reduce it... You will see a far better balance in the tank within a month.

So the stories are these.... Don't try to sterilise your tank, just reduce the hoovering to regain the symbiotic balance of good/bad bacteria... And dear lord above don't use bleach!!!!!!
Don't throw everything away that's an awful waste of money and good tank decorations, just keep the tank together, or take the advantage of having no fish in there and rearrange everything to the way you want it... Keep the filter running and then slowly restock the tank with fish once you have changed over to the sand.
Bleach and throwing things away are just too drastic. The filter is really more of a mechanical way of polishing the water, it does contain bacteria of course but the main populations of filter bacteria are actually on every surface within the tank so by throwing stuff away, not only do you waste good tank decorations but you also reduce the beneficial bacteria. You will be wise to take your existing gravel and to mix it in with the new sand when you get it to "seed" the bacterial growth in the new sand.... This way you don't reduce the bacterial count too much either.

In short this is not about getting rid of bad bacteria ... They will always be there, but this is about regaining the balance of good vs bad symbiosis.
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Old 07-30-2012, 04:52 AM   #16
 
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looks like what i told you earlier was the right thing to do. thanks snappyarcher for explaining to her in detail what i experienced but couldn't explain in detail
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Old 07-30-2012, 04:56 AM   #17
 
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Thats what I'm here for... I personally believe its valuable for people like my self to help where possible. After 26 years of experience I have pretty much seen it all... But then again... Lol :)
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:03 AM   #18
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
My first suggestion is to leave the fish in the affected tank, don't go moving them around. It is better to keep this confined to one tank, even if it means losing the fish, that spreading it to others.

As fior what it is, I've no idea. Something may well have come with the feeder fish in that other tank and been transferred. I would suspect some type of internal protozoan or parasite. But it needs someone more experienced that me to suggest what, and how to treat. The damage on dead fish might be due to post-death picking by other fish, and the white might be fungus on a wound.

I hope one of the knowledgeable members will be online to help.

Byron.

+one,,
I would not move any fish from the tank out of fear of spreading pathogen unknown to other tank's.
Feeder fish are notorious for bringing disease to otherwise healthy system's and in the future,,i would opt for bit's of krill,shrimp,chopped earthworms rather than place storebought feeder's in my tank's.
I am sorry for your trouble but as Byron said ,,I would let the tank do what it's gonna do even if all fish are lost.

Last edited by 1077; 07-30-2012 at 07:09 AM.. Reason: delete
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:46 AM   #19
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snappyarcher View Post
Right!!!!!!!! Firstly I must have a bit of a rant....... I have seen simalar posts so many times like this its astonishing! The simple cause of this problem and many other related ones is a lack of knowledge about the nitrogen cycle. Yes the tank is cycled and doing well according to water tests but with vacuuming the gravel every ten days there is so little stable and established bacteria in the tank that the parameters are actually fluctuating wildly and quickly at the gravel layers of the tank, which is an anaerobic area and so prone to fast changes!
You see with any ecology system in the wild, changes happen not over night, but over months, years and sometimes millenia.... if you keep hoovering the gravel there is a change every 10 days by the sound of it.
My point is this.... its not what you do that counts all the time... sometimes its what you dont do! And in this case you are doing to much.

Now what to do about the situation.... first off dont do too much..... to a great extent thats the problem.... I would NOT dry out the bog wood as this does not sterilise it it merely kills of the beneficial bacterial growth that is , especially at the moment, absolutely critical. Secondly Do not treat with methylene blue as there is nothing in the problem to indicate that it will eb of any use at all, it will simply upset the biochemical balance of the tank.

Treat the tank with metronidazole and a 1/3 strength dose of malachite green if you can. Do the full dose and dont skip any days.
Pristella species tetra are now mainly captive bred and are a hell of a lot stronger than people think so dont worry about the metronidazole but there is a fair bit of evidence to suggest that malachite green CAN cause a reaction..... so just the 1/3 dose.
Message me if you need any help :)
I am on board with some of this.
Easiest way to keep substrate clean is by not overfeeding, and by vaccuming the substrate in section's when vaccuming is needed.
Vaccum one third of the bottom one week,another third the following week,and the last third the next week.
This will have no negative effect on bacterial colony and substrate remain's cleaner.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:14 AM   #20
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snappyarcher View Post
Ok first things first..... NO BLEACH!!!!!!!! .... Under no circumstances add bleach to any equipment or tank that is intended for fish use!!!!!!!!!!!!! I CANNOT EMPHASIZE THIS ENOUGH!!!!!!
Bleach contains sodium hypochlorite which is extremely toxic to fish and associated bacteria.... If you use bleach you will... And I MEAN WILL.... Have ongoing problems in the tank long term because its nigh on impossible to get rid of completely!!!!!!

Ok that out the way, you ask if sand has more or less bacteria than gravel, and the answer is that sand does have a greater bacterial colony because it actually has a greater surface area for the bacteria to live on. There is such a thing as a fluidized bed filter which takes bacterial advantage of this phenomenon.

Hoovering the gravel is not a bad thing no, but we have to strike a balance between what's good for the tank and what's aesthetically pleasing... And hoovering tends to be a bit on the drastic side.... It tends to upset the balance of the bacteria in the gravel. So I'm not saying stop hoovering but just reduce it... You will see a far better balance in the tank within a month.

So the stories are these.... Don't try to sterilise your tank, just reduce the hoovering to regain the symbiotic balance of good/bad bacteria... And dear lord above don't use bleach!!!!!!
Don't throw everything away that's an awful waste of money and good tank decorations, just keep the tank together, or take the advantage of having no fish in there and rearrange everything to the way you want it... Keep the filter running and then slowly restock the tank with fish once you have changed over to the sand.
Bleach and throwing things away are just too drastic. The filter is really more of a mechanical way of polishing the water, it does contain bacteria of course but the main populations of filter bacteria are actually on every surface within the tank so by throwing stuff away, not only do you waste good tank decorations but you also reduce the beneficial bacteria. You will be wise to take your existing gravel and to mix it in with the new sand when you get it to "seed" the bacterial growth in the new sand.... This way you don't reduce the bacterial count too much either.

In short this is not about getting rid of bad bacteria ... They will always be there, but this is about regaining the balance of good vs bad symbiosis.
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So long as that which is cleaned with bleach water solution is rinsed,and allowed to dry, (24 to 48 hours)there is no risk in cleaning aquariums.(curious for source stating otherwise)
Been doin it for nearly four decades.(perhap's thousand's of other's as well)
Cleaned quarantine tank's,rock's,live plant's,wood,pleco nesting tubes made of PVC,slate.
They use bleach water solution to sterilize many thing's including produce that we eat.
Would not use this method in active aquarium's for obvious reason's, but to clean equipment before use, or after tear down and before next use, there is no harm. (can use dechlorinator and water to rinse if worried)
Actually doubt that 1/4 cup to 40 gallons that OP metioned, could even be considered effective.
Nothing but harmless salt left after bleach has dried,dissipated,evaporated.

Last edited by 1077; 07-30-2012 at 08:18 AM..
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