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Ack - Ich! With farlowella and kuhlis... Help please!

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Ack - Ich! With farlowella and kuhlis... Help please!
Old 01-30-2012, 11:46 PM   #11
 
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Argh - my heater does not want to make my tank 85 degrees. It's frustrating. I'm contemplating getting a new heater or at least an additional heater for this kind of thing.

I wonder if I need more watts - its a 65-gallon 3-ft tank, and it's an Eheim Jager 150 W. It was tricky to calibrate initially - actually, the dial won't turn far enough for me to get it to calibrate correctly, so I set it to what works according to the thermometer - less than ideal. Now it really doesn't want to heat the tank. It did get up to 84, but no higher that I saw, and right now it's back down at about 82, and the light has been pretty much consistently on, which I'm sure means it just can't handle what I'm asking it to do. Also, the one time I left my heater unplugged after a water change, it took forever to get the tank back up to 78-9, from about 68-70.

Time for a new heater? How many watts?

Last edited by magpie; 01-30-2012 at 11:50 PM..
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Old 01-31-2012, 01:07 PM   #12
 
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Argh - my heater does not want to make my tank 85 degrees. It's frustrating. I'm contemplating getting a new heater or at least an additional heater for this kind of thing.

I wonder if I need more watts - its a 65-gallon 3-ft tank, and it's an Eheim Jager 150 W. It was tricky to calibrate initially - actually, the dial won't turn far enough for me to get it to calibrate correctly, so I set it to what works according to the thermometer - less than ideal. Now it really doesn't want to heat the tank. It did get up to 84, but no higher that I saw, and right now it's back down at about 82, and the light has been pretty much consistently on, which I'm sure means it just can't handle what I'm asking it to do. Also, the one time I left my heater unplugged after a water change, it took forever to get the tank back up to 78-9, from about 68-70.

Time for a new heater? How many watts?
I have that same heater (Jager 150w) in my 33g which is 3 feet length. I found the temp numbers on the dial were not accurate with respect to the actual temperature; I have the heater dial set between 73 and 75 and it heats the tank to 78F consistantly. I am certain this is the actual temp because all my tanks (except one) are set at 77-79F and my floating thermometers and one digital register the same. This is common for many heaters, even the good ones. And I think Eheim Jager is one of the best.

I did have an ich outbreak in this tank a while ago, and I increased the temp on this heater to raise the water to 85F. I can't remember what setting I used, but it was probably around 80 on the dial.
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Old 01-31-2012, 02:12 PM   #13
 
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I cranked it up and it isn't getting to 84. 82 still this morning. Must be too much water? It's great to know that it won't get stuck and fry my fish, but its evidently not enough to increase the temp on its own effectively. I think I'll get a second heater to support it for this week.
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Old 01-31-2012, 03:54 PM   #14
 
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I cranked it up and it isn't getting to 84. 82 still this morning. Must be too much water? It's great to know that it won't get stuck and fry my fish, but its evidently not enough to increase the temp on its own effectively. I think I'll get a second heater to support it for this week.
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One thing to bear in mind, and that is the ambient room temperature. Most (perhaps all) aquarium heaters are calibrated to be accurate (reliable) provided the ambient temperature of the room remains within 10-15 degrees. In other words, if the room temp is 60F, the heater will have a difficult time keeping the tank at 80F, and may not be able to at all. I keep my room temp at 70F and the heaters thus work less hard.
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Old 01-31-2012, 06:38 PM   #15
 
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Yes... We keep our house at 68. Must be too much for it.
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:32 PM   #16
 
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Well, I finally dropped the temperature 5 days ago, and today did a 25% water change.

All of the fish still aren't acting fully normal.

- The Hatchetfish seem to be doing much better today after the water change. They had been acting odd, not hanging out together, in odd spots, much lower in the tank, some chasing of each other. Last night they were "playing" in the filter flow, which they rarely do.
- Farlowella and Rainbows - don't seem to be phased one bit, and haven't really been at all during this entire Ich drama.
- Ricefish - still much less in your face and less active than normal. All day today I have only been counting 3 of them, when there were 6. This is unusual - they don't tend to hide. There are a lot of hiding spots, though. They were the ones who were visibly hit with the ich.
- Pencifish - are mostly staying down in the stems of the swords. They do this when they're not super happy (ie when I forgot to plug my heater back in and the temp dropped 10 degrees). There are all 5 though, their color is decent, and they all came out to eat last night.
- Kuhlis - less active, more hiding, even during feeding time. I can identify most of them individually through markings - I have seen at least 5 of the 8 last night and today.

I don't like this.

I tested the water today after the water change, and had ammonia of .25! Nitrites 0, Nitrates 5.
I've not had ANY ammonia since day one of this tank.

So what's going on? Is it from the medication and/or the subsequent temp increase during the treatment?
Could there be 3 dead Ricefish somewhere rotting?

I looked all over the tank with a headlamp, and didn't see anything dead, but again - it's really hard to see all areas of the tank with the rocks and the plants. I still have a large rock holding down some driftwood. Should I lift it up and see if there are any dead fish?

How much of an issue would unfound dead fish be in regards to ammonia? Should I disrupt the entire tank to find them?

Should I clean my filter pads/substrate?

ARGH!
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:45 PM   #17
 
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As long as your pH remains below 7, I would not mess over ammonia (it will be ammonium if it is there). I don't even test for ammonia, haven't for years, with all my plants it is a non-issue.

Any chance there is ammonia in the tap water, since this was post-water change? This does happen. Kymmie had a large nitrite increase following a water change, turned out to be the tap water that had previously been zero nitrite.

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Old 02-09-2012, 08:05 PM   #18
 
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I've tested the tap but after letting it sit... 0.

The pH is below 7. So I shouldn't worry then?

Just waiting for everyone to be acting normal.
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Old 02-09-2012, 08:26 PM   #19
 
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For future browsers of this thread, YES! Extra aeration is needed. The higher the temp of the water, the less oxygen it can hold. This is especially important with certain species, and in heavily stocked or overstocked tanks, but it helps in any situation. Extra aeration can come in the form of airstones (best choice), or dropping the water level down a bit so that the outflow of the filter causes more splashing.

So anyway, I have questions about this thread if I may. Learning about Ich is my current obsession. I've covered salt/heat treatments and formalin/malachite green treatments, and various supplementary methods. I still need to learn about herbal remedies. And I don't know about the copper medications that you're using. So I have questions, if you don't mind. Please and thank you!

In using a copper drug on a tank that has a normally low pH, does it mess with the pH?
If you're not vacuuming the substrate to help get rid of cilates, and water changing to help get rid of tomites, does it make the process longer?
Isn't the magic temperature 86 degrees F?
With copper drugs, do you still continue the treatment for 3 days after seeing the last cyst?

Also, magpie, what do you think led to the stress and then this problem?

Thanks for helping me learn!
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Old 02-09-2012, 09:19 PM   #20
 
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My responses in red:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MinaMinaMina View Post
For future browsers of this thread, YES! Extra aeration is needed. The higher the temp of the water, the less oxygen it can hold. This is especially important with certain species, and in heavily stocked or overstocked tanks, but it helps in any situation. Extra aeration can come in the form of airstones (best choice), or dropping the water level down a bit so that the outflow of the filter causes more splashing.

Good, I'm so happy I did that. I just lowered the water level a touch so the spray bar was aerating the surface, and there were tiny air bubbles created.

So anyway, I have questions about this thread if I may. Learning about Ich is my current obsession. I've covered salt/heat treatments and formalin/malachite green treatments, and various supplementary methods. I still need to learn about herbal remedies. And I don't know about the copper medications that you're using. So I have questions, if you don't mind. Please and thank you!

Byron or others may be much more equipped to answer your questions, but I'll give you what I have. I'd also love to hear more about what you've learned in your current obsession! I'm all about reading and soaking up information.

In using a copper drug on a tank that has a normally low pH, does it mess with the pH?
I don't know. I'll test mine right now - didn't even consider that. OK, tested and it's 7.0. Usually runs closer to 6.8, but part of that might be the fresh water change with the tap. Nothing major at least.

If you're not vacuuming the substrate to help get rid of cilates, and water changing to help get rid of tomites, does it make the process longer?
I don't know...? I know that if you take any water out, you're decreasing the dose. I'd assume that's why it's not done, as you'd not be sure how much to add back to have the medication at full dose.

Isn't the magic temperature 86 degrees F?
I have no idea. I've read from 84-86. I've also read Celsius temps, which aren't an exact translation.

With copper drugs, do you still continue the treatment for 3 days after seeing the last cyst?
I'm just doing what Byron suggested - Large water chage, Dose, raise temp for one week, drop temp back down, water change after 4-5 days. I only did a 25% water change so the meds are still in there. I haven't seen any outward signs of ich for a good week prior to the water change today. The instructions don't tell you how long past the signs. It just says that it doses for 1 month.

Also, magpie, what do you think led to the stress and then this problem?
Do you mean what caused the stress to lead to the ich? I'm not sure, though I am still adding fish to my tank. So I had added 12 (tiny) Gertrudae Rainbowfish and 3 Farlowella both within 2 weeks of the ich outbreak. I usually associate ich with new fish, but actually I didn't see any signs on these fish, and they seemed the least stressed by the entire treatment.

As far as what is / was causing the stress on the fish during the treatment - I would guess the discomfort of the ich, the high temps, the meds. I wish I really knew.

Also keep in mind that a lot of my fish are known to be sensitive types. And some are likely wild (pencilfish, hatchetfish, kuhlis etc)

I don't like seeing anything but happy fish in my tank - it stresses ME out. Good thing I can't get ich.

Thanks for helping me learn!
Please let me know anything you've learned recently too!

I'm wondering: when I should do another water change, and if I should be doing anything to my filter (ie new sponges, cleaning the substrate/media)

Last edited by magpie; 02-09-2012 at 09:22 PM..
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