PLZ Help on a 20 gallon FOWLR - Page 5 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #41 of 85 Old 07-19-2011, 05:58 PM
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lol, i don't think you have any idea what your getting yourself into with a damsel. they will claim the tank as cali girl said, and are often times not too keen on leavening it. the number one compatibility issue in saltwater aquariums in my experience is hands down damsel issues, and often times the resolution involved tearing apart the whole aquarium trying to catch them. most of the cases of people crashing their live rock were related to damsel removal.

you can use a trap and it seemed like many customers had fairly good results doing so, but its a pain and can be pricey. both hawkfish and gobies are pretty hardy. i would start off with a reasonable fishless cycle, a few palmfulls of food or so, then after that spike starts to settle add some nasariouss and overfeed, after that hermits and continue overfeeding, a while after that let it settle then you should be good for a hardy none damsel fish. monitor the tank for a while after the addition of a few hardy fish and if all seems well without any major fluctuations then your ready for your clownfish. be cautious in your selection though because clownfish take some serious abuse at wholesalers.

damsels are really really bad fish. if you actually want damsels for more then just cycling purposes that’s fine, but I recommend to add them last. as caligirl mentioned they claim the tank and become very territorial. I once had a customer who actually had a pair of clowns with a damsel once. he lost one of them and could never replace it because the damsel he had in the tank never allowed new fish.

All the technology for fish care has been around for billions of years.
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post #42 of 85 Old 07-19-2011, 08:03 PM
Originally Posted by cro117 View Post
ya you can mix them without any problems. as far as nitrate filter im not sure, the ones i've heard of are pretty much just a gimmick. could you get me some more info like a name or a link? i am very curious about any filtration claiming to eliminate nitrates.

Aquaworld Aquarium - The Denitrator
Sulphur Denitrator - RTAW Reefpedia
The Sulpher Denitrator is actually better than the regular one, and can be taken off the system once the trates have been laid to rest, then added again if they go up.
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post #43 of 85 Old 07-19-2011, 08:29 PM
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great links reefmadness. i never actually played with a sulphur denitrator myself so i wont make any comments on that. the denitrator in the first link though actualy looks like it could have potential, depending on its costs. my money will always be on the good old fashion mud filter mixed with a little peat soil. not only does it take care of nitrates in a natural way, it also provides a breeding ground for plankton and other small invertabrates.

another concern with the filter in the first link is that the water returning to the tank may contain toxic byproducts and should be exposed to oxygen before coming in contact with animal life, maybe it dissipates fast enough though to not cause harm. im a mud filter it is taken care of at a slow rate via diffusion and is detoxed as it rises to the surface in the 1-2" of surface substrate.

i still say the cheapest and easiest way to manage nitrates is simply a think sand bed. it wont be as effective as a mudfilter or the filter like the one linked, but for the cost and simplicity it is well worth it.

All the technology for fish care has been around for billions of years.
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post #44 of 85 Old 07-19-2011, 08:51 PM
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I understand both sides to this...On one hand you are trying to protect the fish you really want long term by getting a tester damsel but on the other hand you may stress out or possibly kill the cheaper "tester" fish..Just know that to most of us hobbyist any fish/creature no matter how expensive or inexpensive it is we still care for it's well being. I can tell you have good intentions so here is my advice to lessen the chance the tester damsel is going to be stressed (which still isn't a guarantee)... Be patient, after about 4 weeks of the tank cycling test the water and if the Nitrite, nitrate, ammonia is 0 and your PH is good wait another week to add the damsels. Even when your readings look good that doesn't mean your done cycling yet. A spike could still happen or there could not be enough beneficial bacteria built up, that is why it would be safer to wait at least another week after you think your cycled.

Just another note...It was a pain to try and catch the damsel out of my tank and at first I never planned on catching him out (I even named him and everything lol) but I couldn't stand seeing him beat up my Maroon clown anymore. I had to borrow a fish trap and it took three days of trying to coax him in the trap which was a bit frustrating. I just wanted to let you know that is hard to catch those guys they are fast.
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post #45 of 85 Old 07-19-2011, 08:59 PM
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if you decide not to get a damsel you should still ask the store employee to catch you one then say, "on second thought i think i'll do fishless cycling." or if you decide you do want one, after it is already caught say, "hmm... could i get that one instead."

All the technology for fish care has been around for billions of years.
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post #46 of 85 Old 07-19-2011, 09:26 PM
Well not for nothing but:
Garabaldi Damsel
Hypsypops rubicunda

Sunshine Chromis
Chromis Insolatus

Starcki Damselfish
Chrysiptera starcki

Lemon Chromis
Neoglyphidodon melas

Australian Tasmanian Devil

There are some cool lookin Damsels out there.
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post #47 of 85 Old 07-19-2011, 09:39 PM Thread Starter
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I thought it would be okay to get em but since u said u can't catch them I don't think I wanna tear up my live rock just aafter I got it. Thanks for the pics reefmadness I think I might start out with some chromises if not that I still want to start your with some cheap hardy fish.
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post #48 of 85 Old 07-20-2011, 12:56 AM
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Those are cool damsels Reefing Madness!

Chromis may not be the easiest thing to catch when you get the live rock in but they might be easier to coax in a trap or net then a damsel though not too sure I have never owned chromis...
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post #49 of 85 Old 07-20-2011, 01:04 AM
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i shouldn't think that he would have to remove the chromis. they should stay relatively small, and i don't think they get to be too aggressive.

All the technology for fish care has been around for billions of years.
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post #50 of 85 Old 07-20-2011, 01:14 AM
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Yeah in that case if you don't plan on removing them they will be fine and like cro117 said they are not aggressive, but there are some larger species...

This is my long term thinking...if you get more then one chromis like 3 for example (which is what most LFS recommend because they are a schooling fish) they are going to create a lot of bio load when you add the clown pair and the possible hawk fish or goby like you mentioned wanting. Just something to keep in mind...
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20 gallon , saltwater aquarium , setup salwater tank

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