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Newbie 55 Gallon Saltwater Tank...

This is a discussion on Newbie 55 Gallon Saltwater Tank... within the Saltwater Fish forums, part of the Saltwater Fish and Coral Reef Tanks category; --> Well gang, even more happening with the tank. I recently made a trip to a fish store about an 1 1/2 hrs. away and ...

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Newbie 55 Gallon Saltwater Tank...
Old 09-21-2007, 04:27 PM   #21
 
Well gang, even more happening with the tank. I recently made a trip to a fish store about an 1 1/2 hrs. away and purchased some base rock to fill out more of my tank. The rock is doing very nicely after its first week and things are looking great.

The fish are doing well, and it would seem the Royal Gramma has learned to defend itself and also has its own hiding spots as well. The Yellow Tail still dips and dives at him from time to time, but things have calmed down significantly since their 1st meeting. The Cardinal has also learned to defend himself somewhat and he doesn't run much from the Damsel anymore. The little 8 blue leg/red leg hermits I have are all over the place and eating like pigs. They are doing a superb job keeping the funk and bad things down.

Temp 78 degrees
Alkalitnity is 1.022
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate under 25
PH 8.4

Everything looks great with this tank so far. I look to be getting some more tankmates soon. I want a Dwarf Flame Angel and a Half Black for the tank and also some more inverts (Skunk Cleaner Shrimp and some Peppermints...also an Emerald Mithrax would be nice) but I'll play it by ear for now.
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Old 10-03-2007, 03:07 AM   #22
 
keep the updates coming
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Old 10-03-2007, 08:38 PM   #23
 
Alright Jake.

Things are going great with the tank gang. I do have some changes occurring however.

Parameters:

78 Temp
0 Ammonia
0 Nitrite
less 25 PPM Nitrate
Salinity at 1.022
PH 8.4

My 4 fish are doing great. The Yellow Tailed Blue Damsel is still chasing the Royal Gramma around a little but he's defending himself pretty good now and so is the PJ Cardinal. The RGB is starting to get a little bigger too and his tail is finally growing all the way back in (after the Damsel nipped him when he was first introduced about 3 weeks ago). The 8 blue/red legged Hermit Crabs are also doing well and have moved around into some other shells that I bought for them. They are excellent at cleaning my tank, although I'd love to have a few more for such a large tank.

As for the tank, it's going great. My wife and I have located a couple of the pieces of base rock absolutely covered in little serpent starfish. The things are everywhere! Also I still have copepods all over the live sand and on the rocks. I also have a good sized Glass Anemone and a small one on some of the rock. I know they are baddies, but it being FOWLR for now it should be OK. Besides, I get some Peppermints and they'll have a snack. Now that I mentioned rocks, I added about 20 more lbs. of base rock into the tank about 2 weeks ago. Everything is doing great, but I'd like to have a few more large pieces and also another 5 lbs. or so piece of live rock to go on top of them. I only have 1 large 11 lbs. piece of live rock in there for now, but it's doing a great job. Everything would seem to be progressing wonderful. No more problems at all with Cyano either. My next move will be to pick up a couple of Hydor Koralia 1's and then a Skunk Cleaner Shrimp, a few more Peppermint Shrimp, maybe a couple of Halloween Hermits and then a couple more fish. I've narrowed it down to a Halfblack Dwarf Angel and possibly a Coral Beauty or Flame Dwarf too. I'm also thinking about a Gobie or Blenny.

Any thoughts on livestock or any other questions, I'll be glad to answer them or listen to advice.

Thanks.
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:59 PM   #24
 
Also, I forgot to mention that my wife and I have located a couple of very small snails crawling around in the tank. Don't have a clue where they came from (had to be out of the big piece of live rock I have), but they are there none the less. They are a cream/white color and about the size of a pencil lead. When we first saw them a week ago, there were 2 of them, one on top of the other). Now, I got a better look at one (he was crawling on the glass in front of me) and it's definitely a snail. I managed to get a good look at him with a magnifying lens I keep handy around the tank. Definitely could see both the eye stalks with the magnification. My Clown Fish (who I have discovered hates his native habitat messed with after he continually bit me while I was moving around the base rock in the tank) took a few nips at him while he crossed the glass, but wouldn't bite him or swallow him. I suppose he realized he was a snail with a shell after the first couple of bites.

I've also took out a couple of parasites since adding the base rock. I removed a small orange/pink bristle worm about 1/4" long and a white worm of some kind about 1/2" long (possibly a flatworm of some type). Hard to believe they've lived this long in my live rock or live sand without being seen, but it's possible. Would it be possible that they have been living in the new base rock, although dry, and then came out when I added them to the tank? I wonder if the base rock that I purchased still had some residual water in it from the previous owner/location?

Anyway, just wanted to share that as well. The tank is doing wonderful and the whole famn damily loves to look at it. So far, so good.
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Old 10-22-2007, 09:21 PM   #25
 
New happenings and a few questions for those experts out there.

Tank Params:

78 degrees
0 Ammonia
0 Nitrite
25 Nitrate
PH 8.4


I purchased a few new tank-mates yesterday. I snagged a Coral Beauty Dwarf Angelfish, Skunk Cleaner Shrimp and a beautiful Pacific Pearlyscaled Butterfly fish for my tank. Both the new additions were absolutely beautiful and the Butterfly quickly became the pick of the bunch. He was feisty and moving all over the tank. He was about 2.5 inches long and the CB was around 3 inches long.

Now, a little over 24 hrs. later I notice the Butterfly (yes, everyone's fave) isn't eating and stays hidden. I notice a small scrape on his belly and what looks like small grains of salt (the dreaded ich?) on his tail and part of his body. He's breathing very quickly and swimming somewhat erratically, staying mostly on the top of the water. I notice this problem pretty quickly and being somewhat familiar with a freshwater tank and a fish staying on the top gasping for breath...I snap into action. I set up a 10 gallon quarantine tank, mixing up the saltwater and PH buffer and other chemicals as quickly as possible. I add apprx. 1 CC of formaldehyde to the 10 gallon of water to treat the ich and also prepare a freshwater dip (whew!). Needless to say, he has already bellied up in the SW tank and is laying on the bottom of the tank. I snag him up and give him a quick 15-20 second freshwater dip and then add him to the quarantine tank. Alas, he's no more. Dead that quick! Not only the fave of the family, but a beautiful (and somewhat expensive...$40.00) fish.

Now, I know what you're saying...should've had that quarantine tank setup the whole time. Believe me...it'll be running when I EVER consider purchasing a new fish and be his first destination (for at least 30 days).

Next question is this...do Butterfly fish stress out that much and are they prone to ich and other fish diseases? More-so than others? Was this ich brought on by stress and lack of eating (24 hrs. seems awfully quick for me to kick the bucket)? Should I make an attempt to move the others (Blue Yellowtailed Damsel, Ocellaris Clown, Royal Gramma Baslet, Coral Beauty) to the quarantine tank and let the main tank set w/inverts for the next 30 days or so? None of the others seems to be having problems, are very active, eating very well and are not stressed in the least.

Assistance is welcome.
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Old 10-23-2007, 12:04 AM   #26
 
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I'm sorry I wasn't able to get here sooner. I just read through this entire thread and as I read I began to cringe from the very first post. I could see the trouble that was coming, and as it played out...

Let me say first and foremost, there is no room for more fish in your tank. A saltwater tank can't be stocked the same way that a fresh water tank can, many reasons for this such as lower oxygen content, more territory needed, waste levels, stress, etc etc.

In answer to your questions about the pearlscale butterfly fish...this is one of the more sensitive fish, not a beginner fish. They are difficult to feed, high on stress levels, skittish, and very very sensitive to changes in water quality and temp. If I had gotten here in the beginning, I would have suggested you consider a 75 gallon tank vs the 55 due to the number and types of fish you can keep. A 55 really isn't very big when you consider the sizes the animals will grow to be and the amount of territory they all need.

The best thing you can do at this point is to stop, regroup, and watch what you have for any signs of ich. I would not suggest removing the fish at this point. That would be a lot of stress and just an invitation for ich to start. I have watched you post water params throughout the thread, and while they seem to be pretty stable, I have not seen a reading for calcium? Have you tested for calcium? With the amount of and types of rock you have added, the number of animals, somewhat heavy feedings, and various other factors, I'm very curious to see where that sits. Too high is just as bad as too low, and that can and will have a big effect on all of the animals, but butterfly fish are extremely sensitive to that.

I don't remember seeing what type of filter you have on the tank? Is there carbon in there? Are you adding any trace elements or iodine, calcium, strontium supplements to the tank? How often are you performing regular water changes? How much water are you changing at a time? Are you running a skimmer? UV Sterilizer?

The biggest thing I can see at this moment is that you're at your limit for fish, and the last group you added contained a very sensitive fish. Unless you wish to upgrade to a larger tank, this one is now full. Be patient, fish need time to grow up just like children do. It happens quicker than you'd think, and just as with people, needs change as they grow. As fish get larger there is more waste output, there is more aggression in some species, and space that wasn't an issue before suddenly becomes a fight to the death for some... and a "middle of the night disappearance" for others. Also, something to keep in mind, not all inverts can be mixed together... many shrimp are known for eating each other, and many crabs are known for eating smaller crabs and shrimp, and even some snails.

What I'm not hearing present in this tank is a "clean up crew" that is designed for your conditions/set up. A saltwater tank is much more of a biological and natural environment than most people realize or are every taught. In saltwater you can learn to achieve balance much easier if you do the research and ask the questions, show the patience and the restraint it takes when it comes to buying new fish. I understand how difficult it can be to achieve that control, this is an addicting hobby... but just as with anything else, it has its rules and its limits. Its important to know those rules and limits and to abide by them carefully to keep things healthy and stable.

I hope this has helped, if you need further help, please let me know.
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Old 10-23-2007, 09:17 PM   #27
 
Thanks Betta,

I haven't checked for Calcium, and will do so as soon as possible. As for water changes, I do one about every 3 weeks and when done it's usually about 10 gallons (1/5 of the tank roughly). I usually mix up the water the day before and let it set 15-24 hrs. w/conditioner added to treat for the chemicals in the water. I also use a powdered PH buffer about every 4 weeks. I have a dual Aquatech filter w/carbon inserts that I change about every 4 weeks. Not the best filter I'm sure, but it is doing a pretty good job (as far as I can tell). I don't add any supplements to the water or to the fish diets. Also, no skimmer and no UV.

To recap (and I know there are a lot of posts) here's the scoop:

FOWLR
12 lbs. of live rock
Apprx. 25 lbs. of base rock (most of which has been in the tank for 3 mos. w/live rock)
40 lbs. of live sand
3 lbs. of actual sea sand on top of the live sand
Aquatech Dual Filter w/Carbon inserts
Instant Ocean salt
1-1 3/4" Yellowtailed Damsel
1-1 1/2" Ocellaris Clown
1-1" PJ Cardinal
1-1 1/2" Royal Gramma Basslet
1-2 1/4" Coral Beauty Dwarf Angel
1-2" Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
8 small Blue Leg/Red Leg Hermit Crabs
Numerous small Serpent Starfish (actually a population explosion) and Copepods

Temp a steady 78 degrees
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 25 or less
PH 8.4
Salinity 1.022

As for cleanup crew, the shrimp and the crabs are it for me so far. Can you suggest something else or is that enough? The crabs do a great job of pretty much eating anything and everything and they are only about 1/4" to 1/2" in size. The animals are fed once or twice a day, usually in the evening and night times. Lights are on in the aquarium for 7-10 hrs. per day.

I was looking to add 1 more fish, but if you say that would tip the scales, then I'll hold off. We got awfully attached to the Pacific Pearlyscale awfully quick. The sheer beauty of this fish was amazing and it went with my tank very well (for the short time I had it). We actually like the Butterflyfish better than the Coral Beauty (isn't this the way it always happens) though both are beautiful.

Plans:

I'd like to add at least 3 more lbs. of live rock, a couple of Hydor Koralia 1's or 2's for water circulation (which I'm definitely lacking) and some other items for color (the tank's background is royal blue, w/white sand and then "rock").

Any suggestions would be more than welcome.
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Old 10-24-2007, 02:45 PM   #28
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishFan
Thanks Betta,

I haven't checked for Calcium, and will do so as soon as possible. As for water changes, I do one about every 3 weeks and when done it's usually about 10 gallons (1/5 of the tank roughly). I usually mix up the water the day before and let it set 15-24 hrs. w/conditioner added to treat for the chemicals in the water. I also use a powdered PH buffer about every 4 weeks. I have a dual Aquatech filter w/carbon inserts that I change about every 4 weeks. Not the best filter I'm sure, but it is doing a pretty good job (as far as I can tell). I don't add any supplements to the water or to the fish diets. Also, no skimmer and no UV.

Do you have a quarantine tank? I would suggest one, especially with no skimmer or UV. Quarantine should be a standard procedure when setting up any aquarium, and is often overlooked until it is needed, and then often it is too late. Fish diseases are highly contageous and can be difficult to treat in a main tank. New fish should always spend 2 wks in a quarantine tank to be sure there is no illness that could spread to the main tank. Running a skimmer and UV would help to ensure you don't have to deal with disease issues, though it is not 100% fool proof. Most illness issues tend to stem from stress, water quality, and parasite issues.. and sometimes 2ndary infections stemming from injury, too. Skimming is important in removing surface proteins, the "oil slick" at the water's surface. These proteins are typically the organic waste that can't be filtered out by other means, so they collect at the surface, which also interferes with oxygen supply in the tank. This is a very useful piece of equip, and I will suggest you consider adding one. The UV will help to filter all the little nasties out of your water, including parasites and some bacterias. Basically, it kills the organisms using UV light, doesn't harm the tank's inhabitants. So provided the circulation is good so that the water actually makes it through the UV, very little is able to contaminate your fish and/or your tank, and if something manages to get through, the UV helps to ensure a much faster and easier recovery process.

To recap (and I know there are a lot of posts) here's the scoop:

FOWLR
12 lbs. of live rock
Apprx. 25 lbs. of base rock (most of which has been in the tank for 3 mos. w/live rock)
40 lbs. of live sand
3 lbs. of actual sea sand on top of the live sand
Aquatech Dual Filter w/Carbon inserts
Instant Ocean salt
1-1 3/4" Yellowtailed Damsel
1-1 1/2" Ocellaris Clown
1-1" PJ Cardinal
1-1 1/2" Royal Gramma Basslet
1-2 1/4" Coral Beauty Dwarf Angel
1-2" Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
8 small Blue Leg/Red Leg Hermit Crabs
Numerous small Serpent Starfish (actually a population explosion) and copepods

Temp a steady 78 degrees
Ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 25 or less
PH 8.4
salinity 1.022

I would encourage premixing your saltwater at least 48 hrs in advance, and in using a power head in the bucket/tub when doing so, to be sure it is mixing evenly. I would also try to slowly raise the SPG/Salinity to 1.023

As for cleanup crew, the shrimp and the crabs are it for me so far. Can you suggest something else or is that enough? The crabs do a great job of pretty much eating anything and everything and they are only about 1/4" to 1/2" in size. The animals are fed once or twice a day, usually in the evening and night times. Lights are on in the aquarium for 7-10 hrs. per day.

With so few hermits, you certainly have room for plenty more. You could easily add another 2 dozen comfortably, especially with such a heavy feeding schedule. Be forewarned, the reg leg/scarlet hermits will get larger than the blue leg hermits, and will likely eat the blue legs. It's a good idea to choose one or the other and stick with it, and providing extra empty shells for the hermits to choose from, as they like to change shells often and can be quite brutal to obtain one they take a liking to. They are known to kill another hermit to steal the shell. There are other inverts you could work with for a cleanup crew, such as emerald crabs and snails, and these are all useful to your aquarium. Turbo snails eat a lot of algae from the glass and the rocks, margarita snails, astrea snails... there is a long list, but those would be the easiest to find and do a good job for you. Those are known to be pretty sturdy, also. There are also starfish that would be compatible to your situation, such as sand sifting stars, brittle stars, linkia stars (more sensitive and slightly harder to keep), fromia stars, and various other species. Some stars are scavengers, some are algae eating, some are carnivores. You'll want to make sure you don't obtain a carnivorous species which has the potential to eat your fish (such as a chocolate chip star).


I was looking to add 1 more fish, but if you say that would tip the scales, then I'll hold off. We got awfully attached to the Pacific Pearlyscale awfully quick. The sheer beauty of this fish was amazing and it went with my tank very well (for the short time I had it). We actually like the Butterflyfish better than the Coral Beauty (isn't this the way it always happens) though both are beautiful.

I would suggest against adding anymore fish unless you first upgrade to a larger tank. These fish will need room to grow, and that is something that happens constantly and tends to happen very quickly. A pj cardinal, for example, in 6 months time can go from the size of a nickel to the size of a 50 cent piece. Clown fish (ocellaris) grow to about 5 inches for females, 3 inches for males, the yellow tail damsels reach about 3 inches average, the royal gramma about 4 inches, and coral beauty about 5 inches. If you have a difficult time picturing how full your tank is, take slips of paper and measure them to these sizes, and hold them against the tank together... you'll see that you will quickly run out of space as they begin to grow, which is when problems develop. By telling you now that you have reached your limit, allowing these fish the amount of space they all need to grow properly and keep your water quality stable, I am saving you heartbreak when fish get sick and/or die, saving you money in trying to "fix" what is suddenly wrong (problems can appear to happen just overnight), and saving the fish that would suffer in the process.
I understand your love of the butterfly fishes, but they are very difficult to keep. The hardest part of keeping them is in feeding them and in stress issues. They tend to be very skittish, and most are still wild caught. A wild caught butterfly is likely eating corals in the wild environment, and some species of butterfly only eat specific corals. Teaching them to accept prepared or "other" foods can prove extremely difficult. I have found that many LFS's sell them without ever getting them to eat first, thus they get stressed from yet another move and then starve to death soon thereafter. Butterfly fish should be saved for something later... a bigger tank and much more experience under your belt first.

Plans:

I'd like to add at least 3 more lbs. of live rock, a couple of Hydor Koralia 1's or 2's for water circulation (which I'm definitely lacking) and some other items for color (the tank's background is royal blue, w/white sand and then "rock").

Any suggestions would be more than welcome.
There are artificial decorations available that are made to replicate saltwater plants. Some of them are very realistic looking, and some even have silk plants attached to them. These tend to be fairly easy to clean if needed, the silk you simply wipe the leaves clean. This can help to add a lot of color to your tank. Also, be aware, as your tank matures over the next 1 - 2 years, coraline algae should grow on your rock, which will lend a vibrant pink/red/purple to your rock. There are macro algaes, caulerpa, that can also add the bright green color, provide shelter for the fish, and help to serve as biological filtration at the same time. Emerald crabs will tend to eat this, so you may find you will need to replace it from time to time if you go the way of emerald crabs, but in some situations, it is known to need to be trimmed back from time to time because it can grow rampant when conditions allow for it. You truly have a lot of options for color other than fish. Do some research on the different macro algaes available. Some are more appealing than others, some need to be kept trimmed more than others, etc.

I hope this helps, let me know if there is anything more I can do or suggest to keep you going in the right direction.
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Old 10-24-2007, 10:31 PM   #29
 
Thanks Betta.

I started to add an Emerald Mithrax Crab the other day but was afraid there'd be some problems between them and the small Hermits. Are they compatible? As for more Hermits, that is definitely do-able, and I think I only have 1 Scarlet Hermit at this time...everything else is Blue Leg. I thought about a few Halloween Crabs or even Electric Orange or Electric Blue crabs as well. However, would they get too big and eventually attack my smaller hermits? What about them attacking some snails? I'd like some snails as well, can you suggest some that the little hermits won't attack? I was afraid they would kill them for their shells.

BTW, I did contact the owner of the "Coral Reef" in Knoxville TN yesterday after the bad news of the Butterflyfish and he told me that he would take care of the problem my next trip down and give me $40.00 in credit at his store. I was very pleased with this news and again, can't recommend Chris Taylor and the gang enough at this store (stop in and see them sometime).

I do have a quarantine tank setup now and will put it to use in the future.

I'll proceed with my plans on adding decorations, more live rock and the power-heads. I'll also check into a skimmer too and a calcium test kit.

BTW, after the lights went out last night I noticed some "extra" biological filtering systems crawling around my sand. I have several bristleworms scouring the sand and rock at night for scraps, a couple that are very fat and 2-3" long. I don't suppose they'll hurt anything and could be beneficial so I'll leave them alone for now.
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Old 10-26-2007, 11:49 AM   #30
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishFan
Thanks Betta.

I started to add an Emerald Mithrax Crab the other day but was afraid there'd be some problems between them and the small Hermits. Are they compatible? As for more Hermits, that is definitely do-able, and I think I only have 1 Scarlet Hermit at this time...everything else is Blue Leg. I thought about a few Halloween Crabs or even Electric Orange or Electric Blue crabs as well. However, would they get too big and eventually attack my smaller hermits? What about them attacking some snails? I'd like some snails as well, can you suggest some that the little hermits won't attack? I was afraid they would kill them for their shells.

The emerald crab doesn't usually bother the other crabs like the blue legs... but the halloween crabs would probably eat your hermits, and might even target an emerald. I would avoid mixing those into the tank. The rule of thumb with most of the hermits, choose one species and stick with it, especially in a tank of that size or smaller where their territory would be limited. The electric hermits are extremely aggressive, and I would expect them to bother any of the other crabs and/or some of the snails. I have seen electric blues in action, and they show no mercy to their victims, lol.

As for snails, the standard blue leg or scarlet hermits shouldn't bother the snails. Blue legs for sure should be fine with any of the snails, just make sure you have plenty of empty shells for the hermits to trade off into.
Snails for you to consider:
Nassarius, astrea, margarita, nerite, turbo, moon snails, and cowrys. You can mix the snails for color and function. Most of these snails target something specific for food, all different from the others. Algae eating snails such as the moon snails and turbos, get quite large, are a lot of fun, and tend to do a good job. They eat a different type of algae than the astrea and margarita varieties, so some of each will only help your tank and give you the variety in animals that you seek. Nassarius snails are a lot of fun to watch. They live in the sand bed and are a detrivore... in a 55 gallon tank you could put 5 - 10 of them in easily enough to help keep your sand clean. The nassarius are one of my favorites, but 1 word of caution... don't letl them climb on you and don't make contact with the "foot" on your bare skin. The slime that is secreted by the nassarius has some type of toxin in it, and it can make you go numb for anywhere from a few hrs to a few days. I found out the hard way when playing with them. It starts out as a tingle, and then just "nothing" for feeing at all. For me it lasted about 3 1/2 days before I got feeing back in my fingers again.


I do have a quarantine tank setup now and will put it to use in the future.

I'll proceed with my plans on adding decorations, more live rock and the power-heads. I'll also check into a skimmer too and a calcium test kit.

Sounds like a great plan!!!

BTW, after the lights went out last night I noticed some "extra" biological filtering systems crawling around my sand. I have several bristleworms scouring the sand and rock at night for scraps, a couple that are very fat and 2-3" long. I don't suppose they'll hurt anything and could be beneficial so I'll leave them alone for now.
If you're finding larger bristle worms it means you are feeding quite heavily. Small bristle worms won't hurt anything so long as they aren't on a rock when you pick it up. Be careful not to get bristles in your fingers/hands, they can be very difficult to remove and very painful, too. If the worms get beyond 3 inches, I usually will pull them out to make sure they don't cause any problems. Smaller than that, I usually leave them alone. If you cut back the amount you feed the fish each time you feed them, the population of bristle worms will balance itself out according to the food supply.
It sounds as if your tank is doing well, I can't wait to see pictures!!!! Good Luck and feel free to ask as many questions as you need to, that's what we're all here for!
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