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Can Freshwater Tanks Have Powerheads?

This is a discussion on Can Freshwater Tanks Have Powerheads? within the Saltwater Aquarium Equipment forums, part of the Beginner Saltwater Aquariums category; --> Originally Posted by FreshWaterTanker If LFs are local fish store are IFs individual fish stor? I've never heard of IFS. It's not a common ...

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Can Freshwater Tanks Have Powerheads?
Old 05-25-2009, 07:42 AM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by FreshWaterTanker View Post
If LFs are local fish store are IFs individual fish stor?
I've never heard of IFS. It's not a common jargon. LFS is the one you are referring to.

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Reverse undergravel filtration?! Not even going to go there. lol.
Did you read the links yet?

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Wow! Snails and sand? How many snails and how much sand? No offense, but aquarium gravel sounds a whole lot easier. I have no clue how much sand costs, but gravel is $3.28 for a 5 lb bag at Wal-Mart. Sand and snails may be a bit too complicated for me. What if the snails get sick? Will they make the fish sick too? How/what do you feed snails. And isn't wet sand heavier than wet gravel?
Unless you have tried both gravel and sand, I see no reason to back off one substrate without attempting it first. You will find sand is much easier IMO and for your goldfish's sake, sand is a much more preferred substrate. My watonai almost choked on a lone piece of pebble itself and there are plenty other cases involving goldfish choking on gravel as well. Yes, sand is heavier than gravel but in the end, gravel is more of a pain to maintain compared to sand in my experience. I vouch for my experience to explain this, not personal preference.

As far as snails going sick, it rarely happens in well maintained tanks. I have kept over a dozen species with no issues. Captive bred snails are rarely a problem compared to wild caught ones.

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See, that picture of Felix is extremely confusing. I would have thought those "pimples" on the gills and frontal pectoral fins were ich. That is exactly were ich effects...the gills. Scary stuff. i would have been treating a perfectly healthy fish.
Ich normally starts on fins, not gills. You will observe spawning behavior as an aside to the appearance of white tubercles. I do not believe you have to be paranoid over ich if you are doing things right. You mentioned in your previous threads, you quarantine. You have very little reasons to worry about diseases.

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When did simple goldfish become so complicated? Sigh. I have my work cut out for me.
Goldfish are not meant for everybody contrary to popular beliefs. If you are willing for the added tasks of what it takes to maintain a perfectly healthy goldfish, they are rewarding in the end.
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Old 05-26-2009, 02:59 AM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by Lupin View Post
I've never heard of IFS. It's not a common jargon. LFS is the one you are referring to.


I discovered my mistake with the jargon acronyms. Memebers sometime refer to LFS as lfs. I mistook the lower case spelling of the "l"as a capital "I". So to me, the spelling looked "Ifs". Okay got that figured out. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Lupin View Post
Did you read the links yet?


No I have not, but I will.

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Originally Posted by Lupin View Post
For your goldfish's sake, sand is a much more preferred substrate. My watonai almost choked on a lone piece of pebble itself and there are plenty other cases involving goldfish choking on gravel as well.

Took me a little bit to understand the entire "choking" issus as I have absolutely never had a problem with gravel and now I know why. My daughter's little goldfish did not grow. Its current body size fits the 10 gal tank capacity comfortably.

However, it is a completely different story with the 5 Calicos. Since they are each already 5" long and via placing them in a 55 gal tank will allow ample re estae for them to continue to grow. Common sense that if a fish will grow so does its mouth and eventually its mouth will be bigger than the gravel. Thus the choking problem.

See, my daughter's balck moor is so little that its mouth is smaller than the gravel. That is why I was having a difficult time understanding your concept. I am not accustomed to goldfish growing. As a child, mine never did and my daughter's still does not.

Therefore, in the futured if/when I will ever get this 55 gal set up I will be using sand. I expect the Calicos to grow to the capacity of the tank, so they will most likely have pretty big mouths.

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Originally Posted by Lupin View Post
As far as snails going sick, it rarely happens in well maintained tanks. I have kept over a dozen species with no issues. Captive bred snails are rarely a problem compared to wild caught ones.
The whole "snail" issue does sound kinda cool, but I do not know. Can I not just use a sucker fish instead of Malaysian Trumpet Snails to keep the sand substrate well aerated? Can they not preven the extremely dangerous anaerobic bacteria from developing in the fresh water tank?


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Originally Posted by Lupin View Post
Compact sand can choke the plant roots and when disturbed, release hydrogen sulfide which is dangerous to both the owner and the fish.


I do not use live plants in tanks; therefore, I do not understand choking plant roots releasing hydrogen sulfide.
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Old 05-26-2009, 03:38 AM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by FreshWaterTanker View Post
Took me a little bit to understand the entire "choking" issus as I have absolutely never had a problem with gravel and now I know why. My daughter's little goldfish did not grow. Its current body size fits the 10 gal tank capacity comfortably.
This is because more than the tank size issue, the maintenance may be inadequate. What are your water parameters right now? Your fish has a potential to outgrow the 10g by achieving a size of 6-7 inches in diameter. By this time, you will realize the 10g is a mere fishbowl compared to tanks bigger than 30g. Many of us have thought before a 55g may seem realistically big but after a long time, we keep upgrading and again, the tank looks smaller than before. Your fish will certainly appreciate the spacious area even if it may seem a waste of space to others.


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However, it is a completely different story with the 5 Calicos. Since they are each already 5" long and via placing them in a 55 gal tank will allow ample re estae for them to continue to grow. Common sense that if a fish will grow so does its mouth and eventually its mouth will be bigger than the gravel. Thus the choking problem.
Do not underestimate the size of the stones. Sand is basically finely grained and therefore is not an issue whereas gravel does have the potential to lock itself near the pharygnreal teeth of the fish thus, can choke the fish.

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See, my daughter's balck moor is so little that its mouth is smaller than the gravel. That is why I was having a difficult time understanding your concept. I am not accustomed to goldfish growing. As a child, mine never did and my daughter's still does not.
See discussion on first quote.


Quote:
Therefore, in the futured if/when I will ever get this 55 gal set up I will be using sand. I expect the Calicos to grow to the capacity of the tank, so they will most likely have pretty big mouths.
So are you telling me the 55g is not a certainty yet nor the sand to avoid choking issues? Don't learn the hard way with gravel. I can attest to this experience and I am trying to prevent this from happening in your case.


Quote:
The whole "snail" issue does sound kinda cool, but I do not know. Can I not just use a sucker fish instead of Malaysian Trumpet Snails to keep the sand substrate well aerated? Can they not preven the extremely dangerous anaerobic bacteria from developing in the fresh water tank?
Which sucker fish are we referring to? If you are talking about corydoras, I am sorry about this but many are tropical species and cannot be mixed in coldwater range. Consider the fact, corydoras cannot compete well with goldfish for food. Banjo catfish are also tropical so they are out.

Plecos do not forage the bottom so they are out as well. Consider several factors in this combination. A lot of plecos are tropical species and in general, they are heavy poo machines in comparison to snails. Are you willing to do more vacuuming and elevate the filtration capacity to almost 10 times the water volume of a 55g tank? A lot of plecos demand protein, more or less, in their diet. Failing that, they will resort to sucking the slime coat of the goldfish thus damaging your goldfish in the process and making them more prone to skin diseases particularly tumor, bacterial infections, ich and fungus.

Chinese algae eaters are another wrongly exploited fish. They do not forage the bottom as well. Besides, not many people realize CAEs have the potential to reach ten inches and as they mature, they grow more aggressive. They use slime coat as their protein source so do not be surprised if you see them latching on the flanks of the goldfish thus damaging the latter in the process.

What is it with snails that you continue to be reluctant towards them? I need to find out what exactly is so I can explain it further if necessary. I find it frustrating to be honest the reluctance of trying snails which are far better options in some cases than fish.

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I do not use live plants in tanks; therefore, I do not understand choking plant roots releasing hydrogen sulfide.
Okay, compare the gravel and sand. Sand looks very fine in comparison to gravel, is that correct based on your perspective? Now, if we do not try to stir it frequently or let the snails do the task, the sand eventually becomes compact. The plant roots eventually fail to get the much needed air and lighting to be able to absorb nutrients. In the process, the roots become choked and die underneath.

As far as hydrogen sulfide is concerned, again, I explained earlier, dead substrate pockets resulting from compact sand encourage anaerobic bacteria to grow. The anaerobic bacteria in turn produces hydrogen sulfide, a powerful and toxic substance capable of causing respiratory problems to both the owner and the fish. Once you disturb the dead pockets, bubbles appear and you will find the smell as rancid as rotten eggs. Anything near the affected area suffer acute respiratory problems. If you have history for lung problems, you are unlikely to breathe well and will potentially damage your lungs especially if your area is not well ventilated. This is why I recommended the trumpet snails to do the job of aerating the sand for you. Trumpet snails burrow aroumd similar to earthworms in the garden.

See gardens for instance. Do plants grow well in mud packed areas where there is no aeration around due to the holes plugged in? Plant roots need air and light to penetrate in order to absorb nutrients. This is applied from botany concept. Do you know why earthworms are very beneficial in gardening? Do you now understand why I recommended the trumpet snails, which are considered earthworms of the underwater garden?
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:12 AM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by Lupin View Post
Thee maintenance may be inadequate. What are your water parameters right now?
Lupin,

I do not understand this question. Water paramters? It is a 10 gal freshwater tank. 20" long X12" hight x 10" wide (deep). One 3" goldfish per 10 gallon aquarium.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupin View Post
Do not underestimate the size of the stones. Sand is basically finely grained and therefore is not an issue whereas gravel does have the potential to lock itself near the pharygnreal teeth of the fish thus, can choke the fish.
I understand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupin View Post
So are you telling me the 55g is not a certainty yet nor the sand to avoid choking issues? Don't learn the hard way with gravel. I can attest to this experience and I am trying to prevent this from happening in your case.


No. That is not what I am saying. I am saying is that if I keep the 55 gal I will definitately be using sand. However, at this point am just about ready to quit the entire project. What was supposed to be a fun and simple Memorial Day weekend project between me and my daughter as quickly turned into a nightmare. All of the stree and complications has got me pulling my hair out.

I have been a successful goldfish feshwater tank owner for the past 10 years, and grew up with goldfish all of my life, and my personal experiences have never, ever been this depressing!

I just wanted to dump goldfish into a tank. Period. I wanted to make my daughter happy, but I am spending more time on this stupid tank and on Internet research than I am on my daughter. What was supposed to make her smile now makes her cry.

My fault. I bit off more than I can chew, I guess. Go in over my head. Took on a project that is obviously too big and complicated for a single mother to accomplish on her own.

Powerheads, UGF, RUGF, hanging filters, black lights, 20 gal, 55 gal, gravel, sand, snails, sucker fish appropriate stands, upstair floor & furniture weight issues, etc. It is just too much. Too overwhelming.

I will just stick with the basic. Simply 10 gal tanks that I can carry and setup myself. Obviouly anything bigger than that is going to be too difficult for me to maintain.

I will just sell the 55 and keep the calicos in 10 gal tanks. They will not get any bigger than what they are now. None of my fish have ever grown. Whatever size they were at the store is the size that they are now...10 years later. Approximately 3" long. He is 10 years old, but he is only 3" long. He is happy, healthy and small.
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Old 05-26-2009, 05:57 AM   #15
 
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Originally Posted by FreshWaterTanker View Post
Lupin,

I do not understand this question. Water paramters? It is a 10 gal freshwater tank. 20" long X12" hight x 10" wide (deep). One 3" goldfish per 10 gallon aquarium.
By water parameters, I meant ammonia, nitrite and nitrates. pH, KH (carbonate hardness) and GH (general hardness) will also count. Water parameters are pretty basic. Unfortunately, they do not gather the interest of local stores who think just because the fish seems to behave fine, it is okay. This should have been included in the basics so the person who is new to the hobby will have a better understanding on what makes water quality one of the top priorities. Test kits are very important here. I would suggest API liquid kits and avoid the test strips for gross inaccuracies.

I have been there before. When I came back to the hobby, I sat in front of my computer confused as I browsed through the internet looking for ways to understand better the whole new concepts of the hobby. Eventually, I absorbed the information slowly. You will eventually. Just don't give up too easily and don't get discouraged, hun. Let me know what else you cannot understand and I will be willing to help further.


Quote:
No. That is not what I am saying. I am saying is that if I keep the 55 gal I will definitately be using sand. However, at this point am just about ready to quit the entire project. What was supposed to be a fun and simple Memorial Day weekend project between me and my daughter as quickly turned into a nightmare. All of the stree and complications has got me pulling my hair out.

I have been a successful goldfish feshwater tank owner for the past 10 years, and grew up with goldfish all of my life, and my personal experiences have never, ever been this depressing!

I just wanted to dump goldfish into a tank. Period. I wanted to make my daughter happy, but I am spending more time on this stupid tank and on Internet research than I am on my daughter. What was supposed to make her smile now makes her cry.

My fault. I bit off more than I can chew, I guess. Go in over my head. Took on a project that is obviously too big and complicated for a single mother to accomplish on her own.

Powerheads, UGF, RUGF, hanging filters, black lights, 20 gal, 55 gal, gravel, sand, snails, sucker fish appropriate stands, upstair floor & furniture weight issues, etc. It is just too much. Too overwhelming.

I will just stick with the basic. Simply 10 gal tanks that I can carry and setup myself. Obviouly anything bigger than that is going to be too difficult for me to maintain.

I will just sell the 55 and keep the calicos in 10 gal tanks. They will not get any bigger than what they are now. None of my fish have ever grown. Whatever size they were at the store is the size that they are now...10 years later. Approximately 3" long. He is 10 years old, but he is only 3" long. He is happy, healthy and small.
I am sorry if it seems the project has turned out to be overwhelming in the end for you. I do assure you that I have tried my best to weigh in as much information as possible so you will have a better understanding of the concepts of fishkeeping. Let me know when to stop as I have the tendency to give a lot more information than it may have been necessary.

There are some things that have not changed in this hobby even from the 70's although a few adjustments have been done to improve the techniques further such as the traditional undergravel filter where powerheads are now added to automatically remove the detritus out from underneath the undergravel filter plate thus preventing nitrate from building up dangerously and subsequently stunting the fish.

There is too much truth in why bigger tanks are much better for starters than smaller ones. Firstly, in small tanks, it is very difficult to control the water quality especially when it involves fish that produce too much wastes such as goldfish. This will require you to change your water frequently to avoid stunting of the fish and even ammonia and nitrite intoxication. In large tanks, the ammonia and nitrite are greatly diluted so the toxic effects are far minimal and thus avoid problems that compile faster in smaller tanks than in large ones. A 55g is obviously an excellent start. You just need a proper stand which you can buy in Craiglist to avoid straining of some corners which could start a leak and destroy your flooring and carpeting.

For now, please relax. I would suggest you come up with a list of what you have planned so far and I will be more than willing to help you narrow down wherenever necessary. If possible, you can PM me your email and I can talk with you in Yahoo Messenger or MSN. The instant messaging make everything much easier than a pile of information in a post or two. Perhaps, I may have given you plenty of information, some of which you may not need for now but still relevant in the later stages. I am sure once you have grasped a lot of information, the later stages become easier and more relaxing.

Last edited by Lupin; 05-26-2009 at 06:14 AM..
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