Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources

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unitednations161 04-21-2012 03:27 PM

PH and tropical fish
 
My ph of my well water is 8.0-8.3, Is there no way I can keep tetras and cory's? My lfs said it won't work, their water they say is 7.4. But i think its a little higher then that. The betta water was 7.8 and he's living fine in my water. I don't want to mess with water ph if i do not have to. I have 4 ghost shrimp and a zebra snail and a betta in the water. And i want to start a 40 gallon community. Am i stuck with Cichlids? Which is perfectly fine. I love the yellow ones.

If i go that root are they any algae eaters that will accept ph that high?

Geomancer 04-21-2012 03:32 PM

You can have live bearers just fine, they love hard basic water. There are also some rainbow fish that do as well.

With live bearers you will want to be careful with the sexes. If you have even a single female, you'll have a constant stream of fry. Unless you have a means of control it can get out of hand quick (think rabbits here). Even so, getting females from the store usually are already preggo ;)

EDIT: Using fish or creatures for controlling algae isn't a good idea. Most are not very good at it, and even so they'll only eat specific kinds not all. That said, snails do best in basic water, acidic water will erode their shells.

Byron 04-21-2012 05:13 PM

Agree. I would also ask about the hardness. Presumably the water is medium hard or harder with that high a pH, but this is not necessarily so, and the GH (general hardness) and KH (carbonate hardness or Alkalinity) is also important as they are somewhat connected to the pH.

As the well water is not municipal, you will have to test it yourself (rather than ask the water supply folks). Will the fish store test hardness? That would save you buying the two kits and only using them once. If they will, get the GH and KH and ask them to give you the numbers, not something vague like "hard" which tells us little if anything. Degrees of GH is significant as it affects fish, as does pH.

If you want to read more background on hardness and pH, here's my article:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/f...quarium-73276/

So to the fish; there is some adaptability but this is limited and it can have detrimental effects long-term. You can read more in my article on stress:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/f...um-fish-98852/

Before deciding if it is feasible to adjust the water, or necessary, we should get those numbers so we will know what will be required. But in the interim, you can browse our profiles [second tab from the left in the blue bar across the top of the page] for fish that prefer hard water and some that will manage depending how hard it turns out to be. There are rainbowfish (though only 3 species so far) under Atherinids, some small fish under Cyprinids, a few under Characins, some cichlids, and some under Catfish. Then of course all the livebearers. And finally, in a large tank, rift lake cichlids.

Byron.

unitednations161 04-21-2012 05:43 PM

We have a softener but i turn it off for aquarium water, Then the hardness both GH and KH is very hard, 300 or so. The PH does not budge so i guess thats sort of a good thing.

Olympia 04-21-2012 05:45 PM

Here are some rainbowfish profiles.. These are beautiful fish, and unlike chichlids they are not overdone, something new, since you used the phrase "stuck with chichlids".
According to the pages they are all fine in 40 gallons or less, and some of them are stunningly coloured. They like groups and show their best colours when there is females and at least 2 males, this will make the males colour up to compete with each other..
I want some of these if I ever get a large enough tank.

Lake Kutubu Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia lacustris) - Seriously Fish
Banded Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia trifasciata) - Seriously Fish
Lake Tebera Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia herbertaxelrodi) - Seriously Fish
Red Rainbowfish (Glossolepis incisus) - Seriously Fish
New Guinea Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia affinis) - Seriously Fish
Boeseman's rainbowfish (Melanotaenia boesemani) - Seriously Fish

:)

unitednations161 04-21-2012 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unitednations161 (Post 1054736)
We have a softener but i turn it off for aquarium water, Then the hardness both GH and KH is very hard, 300 or so. The PH does not budge so i guess thats sort of a good thing.



Well turns out i just checked my tanks water and the ph from an api test kit (liquid kind) says its 7.0!!!!!

My water from the tap is 8.3!!

Could the plants and the fish and the co2 really lower it that much? When the KH and GH are super high??

If its going to be lowered that much, i guess i can't keep High PH fish! how do i keep cichlids in 7.0 water. PH is really frustrating me.

unitednations161 04-21-2012 06:20 PM

Ill start over with numbers,

Tap water before tank
KH 212 ppm
GH 300 ppm
PH 8.0

Tap water in tank
KH 300 ppm
GH 300 ppm
PH 7.0

Byron 04-21-2012 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unitednations161 (Post 1054791)
Ill start over with numbers,

Tap water before tank
KH 212 ppm
GH 300 ppm
PH 8.0

Tap water in tank
KH 300 ppm
GH 300 ppm
PH 7.0

Something is not making sense here. You mentioned CO2, are you adding diffused CO2?

And on the API pH test, which range kit are you using? They make a high pH, normal and (I think) low pH, maybe not the latter. Using the high and the normal for example will result in different numbers, so it is important to know which kit applies and stay with that for both tap and tank to ensure reliable numbers. And shake the tap water briskly for a couople minutes to out-gas the CO2.

unitednations161 04-22-2012 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron (Post 1054853)
Something is not making sense here. You mentioned CO2, are you adding diffused CO2?

And on the API pH test, which range kit are you using? They make a high pH, normal and (I think) low pH, maybe not the latter. Using the high and the normal for example will result in different numbers, so it is important to know which kit applies and stay with that for both tap and tank to ensure reliable numbers. And shake the tap water briskly for a couople minutes to out-gas the CO2.


I have a DIY CO2 line running into the tank for the plants. I have 4 plants in the tank.
Tonight i did another test after shaking the water and the ph was around 7.4.

I use either the high or normal range one. If its maxed out on one i try the other.

Byron 04-22-2012 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unitednations161 (Post 1055187)
I have a DIY CO2 line running into the tank for the plants. I have 4 plants in the tank.
Tonight i did another test after shaking the water and the ph was around 7.4.

I use either the high or normal range one. If its maxed out on one i try the other.

The CO2 explains the lower pH in the aquarium. And on test kits, only use one consistently, but the one that is accurate for the source water.

Now that the oddities are explained, back to the initial question of fish. The pH is one factor, but equally important is the GH. [KH has noeffect on fish or plants, but it is important chemically.] So note the GH as well as the pH ranges for any fish.


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