Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources

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-   -   clown loaches (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-tropical-fish/clown-loaches-97284/)

Christine123 03-28-2012 03:15 PM

clown loaches
 
Hi
I am not having any luck with my clown loaches and have now lost three .
I wonder if I am feeding them right as they are fine for 1-2 weeks then they die.
I also have bristle noses ,kribensis and angels in the 190 litre 4 foot tank and they are fine.MY tank is about 3 months old and the other fish are thriving.I didnt get any loaches until the conditions were right according my the LFS who have been very helpful as they advised me to wait until the three month mark as they said that loaches are harder to keep that a lot of other fish
Any ideas please?

Jayy 03-28-2012 07:09 PM

Well... based on what I've read and our profile, 4ft is too small for them. They need atleast a 6ft fish tank. I've also read that they're senitive to poor water quality. When is the last time you've did a water change and checked your water?

Byron 03-28-2012 08:38 PM

Jayy is correct on the tank sizxe for them as they grow, but at this stage assuming they are the size one normally finds them in stores, around 2 or maybe 3 inches, they would not die so soon from being in a 4-foot tank. So I would look at water conditions. And the store was quite correct, loaches are best introduced to an established tank, which means one that has cycled and then settled biologically, usually 3 months works for this but each aquarium is different biologically.

Have you tested ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? Loach do not do well under high nitrates; some other fish would show no visible signs for this, unlike ammonia or nitrite. Still it is as well to check everything.

Then parameters. What is the pH? A sudden shift can affect sensitive fish more than others. Do you know the hardness (GH) of the tap water and tank (probably the same)? And what temperature?

What is the tank environment like? Are there plenty of hiding spots where each loach can completely disappear? This is essential for their security. Any plants for shade and more security? How many did you get, and together?

Did you notice any interaction with the other fish, by which I mean any nudging or chasing of the loaches by other fish?

Lots of questions I know, but without the facts we will just be stumbling in the dark suggesting solutions.;-)

Christine123 03-29-2012 01:22 AM

LOaches
 
According to the LFS all readings are good and the ph is neutral.I change about 1/4 of water each week and there are lots of hiding places.I will gte the readings doen again next week
Thats what made me wonder about feeding.I never saw them eat & I wonder did enough food get to the bottom to feed them
DEspite hours of observing them I never saw another fish attack or harrass them so its a mystery.
Thankyou so much for trying to help



Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron (Post 1028069)
Jayy is correct on the tank sizxe for them as they grow, but at this stage assuming they are the size one normally finds them in stores, around 2 or maybe 3 inches, they would not die so soon from being in a 4-foot tank. So I would look at water conditions. And the store was quite correct, loaches are best introduced to an established tank, which means one that has cycled and then settled biologically, usually 3 months works for this but each aquarium is different biologically.

Have you tested ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? Loach do not do well under high nitrates; some other fish would show no visible signs for this, unlike ammonia or nitrite. Still it is as well to check everything.

Then parameters. What is the pH? A sudden shift can affect sensitive fish more than others. Do you know the hardness (GH) of the tap water and tank (probably the same)? And what temperature?

What is the tank environment like? Are there plenty of hiding spots where each loach can completely disappear? This is essential for their security. Any plants for shade and more security? How many did you get, and together?

Did you notice any interaction with the other fish, by which I mean any nudging or chasing of the loaches by other fish?

Lots of questions I know, but without the facts we will just be stumbling in the dark suggesting solutions.;-)


Byron 03-29-2012 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christine123 (Post 1028321)
According to the LFS all readings are good and the ph is neutral.I change about 1/4 of water each week and there are lots of hiding places.I will gte the readings doen again next week
Thats what made me wonder about feeding.I never saw them eat & I wonder did enough food get to the bottom to feed them
DEspite hours of observing them I never saw another fish attack or harrass them so its a mystery.
Thankyou so much for trying to help

You didn't answer all of my previous questions, and they are all important. Something is causing this, and it may be one issue or more together.

And when you say water readings are good, ask the store to give you numbers. Without the actual test numbers for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, we can't help much. What the store clerk considers "good" may not be.

Christine123 03-29-2012 03:09 PM

I will go get the actual readings B4 I get another loach but it may be next week B4 I get there I am afraid.
Sorry I missed the question How many etc
I bought two and after about 10 days 1 died so I got another .That one lasted a week & they both died the same day
Plenty of hiding spots and plants & floating plants for shade.
I was told bristle noses require similar conditions and my two are doing really well .Is this sorrect do you think that they require similar conditions.
I have had very few problems with any other fish so this is baffling me and wonder if maybe clown loaches are not for me
I see kuhli loaches are easy care and I hate to think I may have caused the death of these lovely clown loaches

Byron 03-29-2012 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christine123 (Post 1028728)
I will go get the actual readings B4 I get another loach but it may be next week B4 I get there I am afraid.
Sorry I missed the question How many etc
I bought two and after about 10 days 1 died so I got another .That one lasted a week & they both died the same day
Plenty of hiding spots and plants & floating plants for shade.
I was told bristle noses require similar conditions and my two are doing really well .Is this sorrect do you think that they require similar conditions.
I have had very few problems with any other fish so this is baffling me and wonder if maybe clown loaches are not for me
I see kuhli loaches are easy care and I hate to think I may have caused the death of these lovely clown loaches

Bristlenose pleco have some similar requirements, but this fish can be kept singly; males are territorial. All loaches have a real need for a group, though I would not expect a loach to die within a week or two just because there were only two. There is always the possibility that there is something wrong with the fish themselves.

Another question I didn't ask was how you acclimated them to the tank. But perhaps most importantly I would want to know the water parameters (GH and pH) of your tank, and possibly of the store tank [this has a relationship with the acclimating, since a difference in pH or GH that is sudden can affect these fish]. And tests of your tank for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate should always be done by you when fish die, as these numbers can be very revealing. An API "Master" combo kit for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate is well worth having.

Before continuing with clown loaches, bear in mind that they will need a 6-foot tank and if this is not feasible I would consider other species. As for the kuhli, they have some sensitivities too, and their hiding and burrowing means they are best with sand substrate.

Christine123 03-29-2012 09:53 PM

I will certainly get these readings ASAP.Pls can you describe acclimated as I have not heard that terminology.
You may be right about the size being not suitable for me .Do you have other suggestions re a bottom dweller please
THANKYOU again
Christine in Australia

Byron 03-30-2012 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christine123 (Post 1029279)
I will certainly get these readings ASAP.Pls can you describe acclimated as I have not heard that terminology.
You may be right about the size being not suitable for me .Do you have other suggestions re a bottom dweller please
THANKYOU again
Christine in Australia

It will be easier to suggest fish when we know the GH and pH of your water. You can get the GH (general hardness) from the water supply folks, they may have a website with data posted. And you should have the pH kit mentioned earlier; testing pH and nitrate is something we recommend long-term, as both these can indicate trouble quickly.

Acclimated is the way you introduce new fish to a tank. I acknowledge there is a difference of opinion among aquarists on how this should be done. Some just dump the fish into the tank. I think the majority of us prefer a gradual method of acclimating the fish, so I'll explain the usual method.

Float the bag in the tank for 15-20 minutes to even the temperature; the water in the bag will adjust to the temperature of the tank water. Depending upon how much water the store put in the bag, I usually remove some of it first, the reason for this will be evident with what comes next. Once the temp is the same, add some of the tank water to the bag while it is still floating. I use a small cup, and usually add about 2/3 of a measuring cup of water, pouring it gently into the bag. Then leave for 15-20 minutes, and repeat. The number of times I do this depends upon the fish species and the degree of difference between the store water and my tank [pH is what I fuss over].

Another method of the above is to float the bag to even the temperature, and then gently pour the fish and all water from the bag into a smallish pail. Add a drip line, which is a piece of the flexible airline tubing with one end in the tank and the other in the pail, with the pail below the tank level so a steady but slow drip flow of water occurs, until the water in the pail is more than double the original volume.

Then, which ever method was used, net the fish out of the bag/pail and into the tank. Never pour the bag water into the tank, as it may contain pathogens you don't want in the tank, and it will certainly contain ammonia.

Christine123 03-30-2012 03:55 PM

I will try to get to the specialist aquarium tomorrow to get all the readings.
Yes I did do the acclimatisation .The PH is neutral as I check that each week
Thanks again


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