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how many is too many?
ok so i think im pretty well stooked but i just want to see what you guys have to say.i have a 55 gallon tank that is fairly planted, and has lots of hiding spots. my stock is as follows:
5 angels 2 large 3 small
4 mollies 1 male 3 female
2 bettas 1 male 1 female
2 kissing guarmi
1 dwarf algea eater
2 ruby sharks
i think im done with my stocking but if i wanted to purchase some more neons and maybe one or two more bottom feeders do you think i would be doing water changes every other day? or am i at max compacity as is?[/url]
Re: how many is too many?
<5 angels 2 large 3 small> adult angelfish reach 6 - 8 inches in diameter; known to be quite aggressive as they mature, and very territorial. With good water quality will grow quite rapidly
<10 neons> neons average 1 - 1/2 inches full grown, schooling fish, very peaceful, known to become angelfish food as the angels approach sizes where they are able to eat them
<4 mollies 1 male 3 female> average adult size ranges from 1 1/2 inches - 5 inches, depending on type of molly (sailfins grow to 5 inches), peaceful and love to breed, each female capable of producing 30+ fry every 30 days
<2 bettas 1 male 1 female> solitary fish, known to be aggressive, especially towards others of its own kind; bettas are best kept alone, mixing male and female only for the spawning and then seperating them again once there are eggs; bettas tend to nip long fins on other fish, and tend to have their fins chewed up by other fish, especially angelfish and gouramis, who tend to claim the surface/upper level for territory... the place the betta needs to get to in order to breathe air
<2 kissing guarmi> average adult size is 6 - 8 inches, these are known to be quite aggressive and that increases as they mature; if a male and female begin to spawn, they can quickly claim an entire tank for territory, will fight with angelfish for territory if feeling crowded
<1 pleco> assuming this is a standard pleco, average adult size about 18 inches, will devour live plants quickly, especially those with wide leaves, such as amazon and other swords; this fish is technically a catfish, thus omnivore, will eat small fish and weak/dying fish, and other things it finds opportunity to devour;
<1 dwarf algea eater> is this an otocinclus maybe? can you post a picture?
<1 crab> fiddler crab? again, can you post a picture? crabs will eat fish if they can catch them; adult gouramis and catfish will eat crabs; most crabs need to be able to get out of the water and require amphiban type habitats, some types also prefer brackish water
<2 ruby sharks> i'm not familiar with this name... rainbow or redtail sharks would be the first that come to mind... do a google for images on these 2 sharks and let me know if that's them... they average 6 - 8 inches full grown and are also known to be quite aggressive, eating other fish such as neons...
I hope this gives you some insight. 5 angelfish alone, full grown, could not stay in a 55 gallon tank... bare minimum just for 5 angels is about 125 gallons. Even if extremely well planted, this tank full of fish has no hope of long term survival. Watch your water quality, and I'd suggest daily water changes of 10% until you sort them out and thin your population. Go easy on food, make sure the fish can finish it completely within 2 minutes. You'll want to test your water regularly, at least weekly until the population is thinned, also.
If you need help figuring out what can stay together and how much space they all need, let us know and we'd be happy to help.
thanx so much guys. im not too sure on the type of crab or pleco. i know the pleco can grow up to 8 inches if that helps. i have a chinese algea eater in my 10 gal. with my betta, frog, and 3 feeders who he chaces all day but he isnt too bad. the betta in the ten gallon is 4 years old and as sad as it is i think hes on his way out i might just add the mollies to that tank now knowing that im over stocked. bettababy are you sure about the gal to angel size? my fish guy told me it was fine, but maybe because hes got like 30 medium sized angels in his 100 gal. i dont want to become a slave to my tank but i also want to keep all of my fish so i will have to keep a close eye on my params. i usually test for ammonia twice a week and everything else once a week. thanx sooo much agian i wont be adding anymore fish for a very long time!!!
Yes, I'm sure about the angelfish, I have friends who breed them in large quantities for profit, have been doing it for 25+ yrs. I also have kept angels, and the one I have currently is about 3 - 4 inches in diameter and is almost outgrown my 65 already. It attacks my red tail shark whenever the shark wanders too close.
If you post pictures of the crab and pleco we can help to identify them. Its important to know what they are if you are going to know what they need for survival.
As for your fish guy, keep in mind that things done in a store are not always as they appear, and not appropriate for a home situation or long term situation. Also, remember it is his job to sell you fish.
I would watch a chinease algea eater in a 10 gal tank, he may eventaully harash the other fish around him to death.
and unfortunatly yes, fish store people will tell you what will work, but not whats best for you fish, you could try and cram 25 angels into a 55 gallon tank if you wanted to.. sure it works, but your gonna end up with all sorts of hell, dead fish, bullied fish, gasping fish etc. the list goes on. if you want happy beautiful angels betta baby knows what shes talking about.
thanx sooo much guys! my camara is giveing me all sorts of problems right now but i will try and post pics asap! ive found homes for 2 of my small angels and i have a home for the kissers but it wont be ready for a lil while. as bad as it sounds i kind of want my feeders to be harassed to death, i know its bad but i really dont want them at all and now theyve grow so big that i wont be able to feed them to anybody. the chinese algea eater never bothers my frog or my betta only the feeders but i guess if there not there he may start to pick on my frog at least. i think for christmas im going to purchase a 20 gallon for my niece, then shes going to inherit my school of neons and my mollies. do you think if i put my betta in a 2 gal. planted vase hell go itno shock with the change of space? my biggest angel is almost the size of my hand and he doesnt pick on anyone, hell even share the algea wafers with two of my other angels do you guys think hes stressed, and thats why hes being nice or is he just a nice fish?
Fish bond just like we do, so not EVERY angelfish is going to turn out to be nasty mean... so long as their needs are met. Plenty of space, which, if that's the largest I'm sure it has established dominance by now... plenty of food, which it sounds as if it's getting, and good water quality are the biggest needs.
As for the betta, I know a lot of people here dont like to see them in a vase or bowl, but they can live just fine that way, again provided they are kept warm, clean, and well fed. In a vase/bowl situation, 50% water change every other day will be needed, and keep feedings to every other day between the cleaning. This will help keep your water quality in check. The hardest part of a bowl/vase is in keeping them warm enough, so between 70-90 degrees, but steady, too. It's hard to heat the water in a vase or bowl. Keeping them in a warm room, away from windows or doors, and where they'll get some natural sunlight during the day (not direct) will help. Keep a thermometer in/on the vase to help monitor temp and you should be just fine. Also, keep the water level at least 1 - 2 inches from the top, and a vase/bowl with a lip on it works even better. Bettas like to jump, this is how they get around in the wild. If you add some decoration/plants to cover different levels of the vase, that is also a big help, but make sure they don't cover the water's surface because the fish need to be able to get to the surface to breathe.
With the neons and mollys, this sounds like a good idea, and they could do quite well in a 20, provided you don't end up overpopulated with molly fry. If you see fry, thin out the plants and decorations a bit and stop feeding for a couple of days, let the fish eat the fry. This won't guarantee you won't end up with a new fish from time to time, something that has managed to survive, so keep count. A 30 gallon would work better than a 20 for the neons and mollys just for that reason alone... it allows space for a few extra fish over time.
It sounds as if you're doing well in your sorting, but again, even with 1 or 2 angels in a 55, watch your water quality. As they grow you will notice it will get harder and harder to keep the tank clean and water quality good. In a cycled tank, watch for ammonia, but also watch the nitrate levels closely. Just because you don't have ammonia doesn't mean that nitrate won't end up off the chart, which can be just as dangerous. When you get to the point where daily water changes of 30% or less aren't keeping the water quality stable, then you know its time to get into a bigger tank, or if you notice that fish who got along for a long time suddenly start to fight or nip each other's fins...
We're always here for help if you need it, so ask away and good luck!
my 2 angels in my tank are friends with my rainbow shark
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