Tropical Fish Keeping banner

65 gallon planted tank - setup journal

27K views 121 replies 13 participants last post by  magpie 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi there,

I'm going to show the progress of my tank setup, and would LOVE any feedback from anyone. It's a 65 gallon, 3-ft long by 24 high. Substrate is Flourite mixed with what my LFS calls "mesh" which is a slightly larger grain sand as far as I can tell. I have an Eheim 2217 external canister filter.

I set up some rocks and a couple pieces of small wood yesterday, and here's what I started with.















Sorry - phone photos. The SLR will make an appearance later on. ;) The water's a bit cloudy as I was stirring things up, and there's obviously some aeration going on with the spraybar. The water level is low because I am scheduled to get 20 plants delivered today and it's easier in a tall tank to plan in lower water.

I think I might need to move or remove a few rocks as I'm not sure how the plants will all work out. I may need to do a major redesign. I'm not sure where to put the planted driftwood yet, right now it's just there because I'm not sure where it needs to go to help balance after I get more things in the tank.

I have a larger branchy piece of driftwood coming via mail also, which I plan on having spread lengthwise but also reach up into the higher levels of the tank - we'll see how it works out when it's here.

The one lighter speckled round rock in the right pile is temporary and is just holding down the small forked piece of driftwood until it wants to hang out there on it's own, probably tipped upwards a bit more.

PLEASE throw your suggestions at me - it's been a long time and I very open! Where future plants should go, if I should move things around, etc. etc.

I'm very excited!
 
See less See more
5
#2 ·
So far I like it, I really like the substrate and I may have more suggestions once you get the plants in. ; )
 
  • Like
Reactions: magpie
#3 ·
My LFS says that their "plant guy" loves this substrate and that my bottom-dwellers will like it, too. I've had gravel in the past, so I like it as well. Looks more natural.

Also, I want some floating plants, as some of the fish on my wishlist really like them. What are your favorites?
 
#4 ·
I love brazilian pennywort, duckweed, and wisteria. Some people don't like duckweed but I like duckweed because well it grows like a weed, lol and I like the way the little roots that grow from them look.
 
  • Like
Reactions: magpie
#5 ·
For fish, my list keeps evolving... still not solid at all.

4 Bolivian Rams
6 Forktail rainbows
12 Cardinal Tetras
8 Clown killies? Or maybe instead do Marbled hatchetfish? I looove killies but I'm not sure.
5-6 Kuhli loaches
2 Stiphodon elegans (algae-eating gobies)

I also am not sure about other critters for a planted tank - have heard that Amano Shrimp are helpful, also I hear mixed things about snails like Malaysian Trumpet Snails and Zebra Nerite Snails.
Opinions on this?
 
#6 ·
I have never had an Amano shrimp but I do have ponds snails and a mystery snail and they do a great job cleaning up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: magpie
#7 ·
Do the snails reproduce like mad?
 
#8 ·
That is very nice, well done. My one hardscape suggestion would be to put a chunk of wood vertical in the left rear corner. Not only to cover the filter stem, but for balance; I find that end of the tank just a tad "light" in weight and it needs something dark and vertical but not too wide. The wood you mentioned on order might do it, I don't know what it is like. A thinnish piece reaching to or close to the top would work, creating the impression of a standing tree or tree trunk.

I do like your river rock arrangement, very natural. A that is a nice substrate. For floating plants, nothing beats Water Sprite if you can get it. Brazilian Pennywort is my second choice. And definitely small snails, Malaysian Livebearing are ideal especially for the substrate which should be left alone by the aquarist.

On the fish, be careful with the Bolivians. If you can be certain of getting one male and 3 females, four will work; two males/two females might but might also be a bit "iffy."

As for the other fish, you have conflicting water parameters. Forktail rainbows should be in basic (pH above 7), and that will finish cardinal tetra that must have acidic. In my experience cardinals should not be above pH 6.

There is also an issue with current; the goby come from fast-flowing streams, and this is certainly not desirable to cardinals or hatchets or killies. On the killies, they would be perfect with cardinals and similar, as the killies stay under floating plants and need acidic water (not above pH 7).

Byron.
 
  • Like
Reactions: magpie
#10 · (Edited)
I agree with the L side of the tank - I picture the driftwood coming reaching up and over to that side, but we shall see. For the driftwood, I bought #2148 on this page. It may need to be trimmed - it's long. I might cut it and use it in two pieces, or a larger piece with a smaller branch elsewhere. We shall see.
Driftwood page 4 The Driftwood Store


I was told that Bolivians liked being social, so more than one pair was good for them, that you'd see more of their personality that way, and that 4 would be good in a 3-ft long tank. I keep getting conflicting information in that regard and am not sure what to do. What would you suggest?
I was told to get a bunch of them and see if the LFS would take back the fish that don't pair off to find two pair.

Our water is soft and the pH generally runs right around neutral. Right now mine is 7.2 - with the driftwood added it might drop a bit, which is what happened to me previously, where it typically ran 6.8 - 7.0.

I definitely want Rams of some sort - Bolivians are hardier and seem even more interactive which is why I have them on my list.
I was initially considering a pair of Rams and then a pair or trio of Apistos, but then thought that one dwarf cichlid would be better than two. (?)

I love Kuhli loaches.
I love gobies (obviously am drawn to eel-looking fish with character - I would love a rope fish but I know it's not suited for this tank with smaller fish). I am fascinated by them and think they're adorable. Plus, the fact that they eat algae - rather well, I hear - is a bonus.
I am really drawn to the forktails as a unique schooler with some color and activity.

Cardinals are just fish that worked well for me previously (even in that same pH range) and I like how a large school of them look. I don't have my heart set on them, the killies, or the hatchets but do need some more middle-upper fish. I do really like killifish in general, though. I am wary of other species of them, though, as I had a female A. Australe eat my Cardinals (I know that's not typical, and I wouldn't have believed it myself had I not seen a tail sticking out of her mouth.)

I also like Silver tip Tetras quite a bit but read that they can be nippy.
I don't like Neons as much as Cardinals but if they're better suited I'd consider them - the blue is nice to have compared with the normal coloration of most other fish I want - which is why I like the Cardinals.
I also could go for Rummynose Tetras.
My husband likes Zebra Danios, I would like a little more color but am open to them.
(Haven't read up on water conditions for the above)

Other suggestions for me? Again, I am very open to suggestions.
 
#12 ·
Thanks, Ill take a peek!
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#13 ·
Yes, the LFS does have those..... Hmmm...

Here's our fish selection if it helps you to help me. :)
Fish

Thanks all!
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#14 · (Edited)
I have ordered fish from them before and get the newsletter they send out they have lots and lots of nice fish! You guys are so lucky to live with in driving distance.
 
#16 ·
We are so fortunate. Their fish are unbelievably healthy, too. If I'm in PetSmart for some other reason, and look at their fish, it makes me a little sad for them. Some of them look like completely different species because the color is so drab. I will say though that overall the PetSmart fish look better than another pet store in the area, where there are often dead fish, and many sad and sick looking guys. :(

Maybe not as cute as the gobies, but Whiptail Catfish and Twig Catfish would work in your water. The Red Lizard Whiptail is really interesting. I have a farlowella (twig catfish) and its one of my favorites. Not colorful or active, but there is something endearing about it.
I do like oddballs, too. The two you mentioned are interesting looking - I'll have to read up more on them as well. Keep the suggestions coming!


I just revisited my fish spreadsheet, and I have the forktails listed as doing well in 6.5-7.5 pH.... I got my info from various sources, but can't remember where that one came from. *sigh*
This site has an even greater range - 6-8.
FishProfiles.com - Pseudomugil furcatus

Argh, it can get so confusing to have such different info everywhere...
 
#15 ·
Maybe not as cute as the gobies, but Whiptail Catfish and Twig Catfish would work in your water. The Red Lizard Whiptail is really interesting. I have a farlowella (twig catfish) and its one of my favorites. Not colorful or active, but there is something endearing about it.
 
#17 ·
I'm wondering if I should point the spraybar differently for the tank so there's less current from it. Maybe take the end cap off, or point it toward the wall that it's attached to?

Pictures coming soon... little more rearranging to do today.
 
#18 ·
The position of the intake and outflow in the tank is good. Directing the flow of the output towards the glass does help to diffuse the current, which would be a good idea if you decide to go with the cardinals or other fish that need still water.


About the Forktail Rainbows: it seems as if the source you linked to is an exception regarding water parameters, all the sources I've looked at (print and online) corroborate what Byron said, e.g. they require hard water with pH >7.0.
 
#19 ·
Yes, I have written them off and think I'll go with the spotted ones - I prefer the look of the furcata but it just makes sense to go with the gertrudae due to water parameters. Don't want unhappy fish.

I stirred up the tank again this morning rearranging. I'm feeling DONE with it for now... planting in a 24 tall tank is a pain and I need a break. ;)

I'll post photos once the water clears up a bit.

I'm thinking this for stocking now....

2-4 Bolivian Rams (still undecided but will be a bit before I get them anyway)
5-6 Kuhli loaches
10-12? Spotted blue eye rainbows (pseudo. gertrudae)
11-13? Rummynose tetra (read they like odd numbers)

2 stiphodon gobies (don't want to let go of them!)

- Marbled hatchets or clown killies... still up for debate and may even go with something different but need a top fish. Worried about the shy nature of the clowns.



Also, another random question - can I just use one bulb in the light fixture even if it's a dual fixture? I thought it might be better for new fish to have it slightly dimmer until I get more floating plant cover. (?)
 
#20 ·
Annnnd.... ;)

How often to do water changes initially?

How much should I fert the plants initially, and then long-term (general guideline)?
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#22 ·
Thanks!

As for Water changes the first couple weeks- every few days? Once a week?
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#23 · (Edited)
I'll try to comment on the several questions/issues raised since my last post, at least those that stand out to me.

The spraybar directed into the end glass does work well at lessening the current. I will just mention a personal experience on this. In my 5-foot 115g I have a few fish that need some current, namely the trio of Spotted Woodcats. So I have the filter outflow about 15 inches from the end wall (left side if you look at the photo of this tank) with the spigot (not a spray bar) aimed at the end wall. The standing wood at the far left has tunnels, and the 3 woodcat took up residence in these due to the current which is relatively brisk as it hits the wood. That plus the end wall weaken it as it is deflected back into the tank. But the area that the other fish stay in is indicative of what I frequently write about water movement and fish. The cardinals always stay at the far right side; very rarely do I see them left of centre. The Roberti Tetra similarly remain in the right half, and back under the large swords, even more than the cardinals (who also like shade). The corys are all in the right half at the back, out of the light and current--by which I mean they "rest" in this area; during the day they are out and about searching for food.

To the rams. If this is a 4-foot tank, 4 may work. If there is male/female, they will perhaps pair up and bond. If the male doesn't like the female, he may spawn a few times, then kill her. Mine did. I recommend this species be kept singly (a sole male), a harem (one male, 3+ females in 4+ feet) or a large group (7-8) if sufficient space. The issue arises when they pair up; the bonded pair will not appreciate other rams anywhere in the tank. They will spawn regularly until they die (4 years lifespan) so this is a continual issue. The extent of the stress and damage varys with the individual fish.

A comment on differing information on various sites. I always consider reliability based upon the author of the information. When I write our profiles, I research several sources, sometimes varying depending upon the species. Those that have knowledgeable biologists, ichthyologists or aquarists writing them, almost always agree on data. If one of these "reliable" differs, I mention that as "some sources say..." or whatever.

There are some who put considerable trust in a fish's ability to adapt to differing water parameters; I am not in this group. It is true that some species do have a remarkable tolerance, but many do not. And in most it is much easier to have flexibility within the acidic or basic range, but not between the two.

On the light fixture, some will operate with one bulb removed, some will not; depends how it is constructed.

Water changes should be weekly from the start--assuming a planted tank with no cycling issues. More frequent changes are needed if ammonia or nitrite appear. Otherwise, no. A new tank will often develop a cloudiness due to a bacterial bloom and water changes will worsen this and extend it. The tank needs time to establish itself biologically. Provided there are no issues, obviously.

Byron.
 
  • Like
Reactions: magpie
#24 · (Edited)
THANK you!

Are you sick of my questions yet? If so, you may want to stop reading. :roll:

I bought brazilian pennywort today... should I leave the full stems or cut them into smaller bits? I see roots at each junction... so I assume I can cut them but then wonder if they're happier attached.


Fish... I went to the wet spot today and they only had one solitary female pseudom. gertrudae. She was with some buddies, but none of her species. Plan ruined! They have some small ones that they're raising to be larger but are not ready yet (in their offsite holding area somewhere). So.... I am stumped. I can't do pretty much any other fish on my list as they are all somewhat sensitive. Kuhlis, rummynose, rams, killies, etc. We discuss maybe the goby, however it is more expensive. I see some beautiful purple pencilfish... I ogle them, but they are too expensive. (And no research done.) Silver tipped tetras are thrown out, and I like them, but I have read too many stories of them being nippy. I pass.

I see these Daisy's Ricefish (Oryzias woworae) which I had seen before and researched a bit as an interest. 74-80 degrees, 6.0-7.0 pH (or 7.5 depending on what you read).
Daisy's Ricefish (Oryzias woworae) - Seriously Fish
I was told they are relatively adaptable, love live foods but are not fussy, are now tank-bred, and so... I get them. They are now acclimating as I type. We'll see how they do. Pretty little fish. I have 6, not yet sure if I will get more at this point.

Photos will come later maybe, if I think turning the light on won't freak them out on their first day.
 
#25 ·
Are you sick of my questions yet? If so, you may want to stop reading. :D
If I didn't want to try to help answer questions, I wouldn't be here.:lol: So never fear of asking. When I started into fish, forums like this one didn't exsist--neither did computers for that matter.:dunno:

I bought Brazilian Pennywort today... should I leave the full stems or cut them into smaller bits? I see roots at each junction... so I assume I can cut them but then wonder if they're happier attached.
This is a stem plant, so it grows by continually lengthening the stem. Roots and leaves grow from every node (your "junction") along the stem; many stem plants do the same, some less so, some only develop roots in the substrate. But you want to keep it in lengths of several nodes. The length is up to you and what effect you want. Planted in the substrate (the cut end), you can let it grow to the surface, or allow it to continue growing over the surface. To keep it shorter, when it reaches the surface or the height you want, pull it up and cut off some of the lower portion and replant the cut end of the top portion. If you cut the stem and leave the lower portion planted, it will usually sprout two new stems from the node where it was cut. I have some floating that have three stems. You can also grow it completely floating, just lay it on the water; here again you can periodically cut it to keep it shorter. If left alone, this plant will easily cover the surface and then begin to grow up through the cover and outside if it can find an opening. This is a very lovely and useful plant.

Fish... I went to the wet spot today and they only had one solitary female pseudom. gertrudae. She was with some buddies, but none of her species. Plan ruined! They have some small ones that they're raising to be larger but are not ready yet (in their offsite holding area somewhere). So.... I am stumped. I can't do pretty much any other fish on my list as they are all somewhat sensitive. Kuhlis, rummynose, rams, killies, etc. We discuss maybe the goby, however it is more expensive. I see some beautiful purple pencilfish... I ogle them, but they are too expensive. (And no research done.) Silver tipped tetras are thrown out, and I like them, but I have read too many stories of them being nippy. I pass.
I agree on the Silvertip, that is a risk. A few other tetra are the same, so check before you buy.;-)
The pencilfish are either the Coral Red or the Purple which is also often called Coral Red 2 or Double Red. Both are in our profiles: click shaded names, Nannostomus mortenthaleri and Nannostomus rubrocaudatus. I have groups of both presently; they need very soft and acidic water as they are wild caught from streams in Peru. But you have that our of your tap as I do. A group of 6 minimum of either. Lovely fish, but yes, they are expensive; I paid $12 each for my six N. rubrocaudatus a couple months ago. I wouldn't put these in a new tank, wait for it to establish (a couple months) if you do decide on them--and perhaps the WS will hold them? Some stores will when they know you are asking because of your new tank and want to do things right.

I see these Daisy's Ricefish (Oryzias woworae) which I had seen before and researched a bit as an interest. 74-80 degrees, 6.0-7.0 pH (or 7.5 depending on what you read).
Daisy's Ricefish (Oryzias woworae) - Seriously Fish
I was told they are relatively adaptable, love live foods but are not fussy, are now tank-bred, and so... I get them. They are now acclimating as I type. We'll see how they do. Pretty little fish. I have 6, not yet sure if I will get more at this point.
I don't know this fish personally. I do know SF though, it is owned and run by my friend Matt Ford, a British biologist now living in Spain. Very knowledgeable individual.

Byron.
 
#26 · (Edited)
I plan on keeping the pennywort floating. I might snip it up a bit, or maybe not. I also have some wisteria up there too (extra from the shipment) but I prefer the pennywort.

The pencilfish were the purple - Nannostomus rubrocaudatus. So pretty. I'm sure they'd hold them for me. Hmmm... not a bad idea. They are selling them for I believe it was $60 for 6, and they only had 6 left. Hence, not wanting to put them in a newer tank.

Here we go!
 
#27 · (Edited)
These little guys are so cool! They've only been here a few hours but are swimming in all areas of the tank - left, right, front, back, bottom and top. They will hang out all together, but occasionally go out and explore on their own. They ate food readily. So crossing my fingers that they'll be OK - all initial signs are good. I may just have to get 5-6 more of them. ;-) Maybe next week.

I think I should spread out the fish addition a week at a time - I think that's what I had read. I'll check levels daily.

Here are a bunch of crappy iphone photos just to get the gist of the plant setup right now. It's not as insanely bright as it looks (phone just doesn't know what to do with the light), and still slightly cloudy from all of the stirring up I've done over the past 2 days. I know it's a jumble of a whole mess of plants, but I think it's looking pretty good considering. Still needs work but I'm content for now... like I said, it's a bit of a pain to move plants around in the 24" tall tank. So I'm ready to enjoy it some. (Still open for input though - please and thank you!) Does it need some more small plants in the front area? Maybe some of those thin grasses that I see sometimes...? Feel free to suggest away.
The Pennywort up top has not yet been attended to - just dropped in. The java moss stuffed behind the intake of the filter is there for safe keeping until the driftwood comes sometime this week - then will probably tie it to bits of the wood, depending on how it looks.









From this angle the front and middle of the tank looks empty. I know a lot of it has to grow in, and that I'll probably end up removing some plants and changing the aquascaping once things are established, but still...



Hi little guys! Welcome....




Wow, taking shots of fish is tough - not great light and lots of movement and shifting focal ranges. Got out the SLR for these two, but need to play with settings quite a bit more in the future.



Whatcha doin'? Feeding me by chance?
 
#28 ·
Very, very nice! you have done a really nice job in my opinion. What kind of fish are those? They are cute.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top