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alidawn15 07-02-2011 08:40 PM

-two guppies in 2 days
 
I had 3 male guppies in quarantine in a .5 gallon critter keeper overnight. When I woke up this morning one of them was dead which wasn't surprising since his tail fin was pretty badly nipped when we brought them home yesterday. I moved them to an empty gallon jar today and ran an airstone in the jar for a short time to see if it would help them be more active. Now the second guppy is swimming crazily like he can't control himself, so I put him back in the shallower .5 gallon critter keeper. They were all fine last night, and everything is in the normal range that's in their profile. Any ideas? I don't have a test kit to check anything but their water was just changed 5 hours ago.

LasColinasCichlids 07-02-2011 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alidawn15 (Post 720887)
I had 3 male guppies in quarantine in a .5 gallon critter keeper overnight. When I woke up this morning one of them was dead which wasn't surprising since his tail fin was pretty badly nipped when we brought them home yesterday. I moved them to an empty gallon jar today and ran an airstone in the jar for a short time to see if it would help them be more active. Now the second guppy is swimming crazily like he can't control himself, so I put him back in the shallower .5 gallon critter keeper. They were all fine last night, and everything is in the normal range that's in their profile. Any ideas? I don't have a test kit to check anything but their water was just changed 5 hours ago.

Guppies are pretty big poopers, and 3 of them in a .5g critter keeper without a filter and established beneficial bacteria, they could easily put out enough ammonia to kill themselves overnight.

Water is your water hardness like? Guppies prefer hard water... although this isnt likely to be the cause of death so quickly.

I would bet that ammonia was the issue. Three guppies can stock a 5 gallon tank on their own and produce enough ammonia to die from if in an uncycled tank... so in only .5 gallon, even for a short period of time, can be deadly with that many.

Also, switching habitats causes a lot of stress on them.

alidawn15 07-02-2011 09:46 PM

Hmm, I've never seen that noted anywhere...strange. I discovered just now that the reflection on the inside of the jar was making the other one freak out under the main light in the room. The weird thing is they were in the half gallon for maybe 12 hours and the injured one was the only one acting strangely. After less than 5 hours and no visible poops the orange one just started swimming crazily and died in less than half an hour. Hopefully the last one is okay since my boyfriend already named him Lupin. Would I be better off taking the chance of putting it in the already established and healthy 10 gallon? I know that would be taking risks with the other fish, but it is watched very closely since I've developed a habit of watching fish tv when I'm bored.

LasColinasCichlids 07-02-2011 10:10 PM

You're planning to put the guppies in with your male betta?

I dont want to be the one to tell you to chance the health of your other fish...that is a call you have to make.

I personally dont quarantine, even though it is highly recommended. I dont have the space, or the energy to do so.

But you cant truly quarantine if the tank they are in themselves isnt adequate housing and stable water parameters, it just adds more stress on the fish making it more susceptible to illness and disease it might not have already had. Most people would quarantine for 2-4+ weeks, and I read somewhere that a 5 or 10g (forget which) is the recommended size for a quarantine or hospital tank.

What havent you seen not noted somewhere? Just curious. Most of my information is from my personal experience and from knowledgeable members here on TFK.

(Reading over my post here, I sound kind of rude... and I just want to say that I do NOT want to come across that way at all!!!! So, I apologize now if it happens to read that way, as I mean it all in nothing but kindness, helpfulness, and such.)

alidawn15 07-02-2011 10:21 PM

Forgot to put in my water is hard but I can't remember what the other word was they used. I haven't ever seen guppies mentioned as ammonia machines...snails of course but not guppies. My male betta is a rather strange case. He schools with the 5 neons and he's been doing it for over a month so it's clearly not him hunting them. I have someone else who can take the guppy in if anything happens and I plan to watch them for quite a while after I put him in. None of the fish in the tank were sick or swimming strangely (just nipped fins). My boyfriend who wasn't into fish at all when I brought home the betta picked out and bought Spongebob's pineapple for the guppy to hide in, because the only thing I have interested in the flower pots are the ghost shrimp. I'd hate for this fish to die in that jar if it's not enough. I just wonder how I managed to quarantine a group of 3 and then 2 neons in the .5 gallon without any issues?

LasColinasCichlids 07-02-2011 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alidawn15 (Post 721012)
Forgot to put in my water is hard but I can't remember what the other word was they used. I haven't ever seen guppies mentioned as ammonia machines...snails of course but not guppies. My male betta is a rather strange case. He schools with the 5 neons and he's been doing it for over a month so it's clearly not him hunting them. I have someone else who can take the guppy in if anything happens and I plan to watch them for quite a while after I put him in. None of the fish in the tank were sick or swimming strangely (just nipped fins). My boyfriend who wasn't into fish at all when I brought home the betta picked out and bought Spongebob's pineapple for the guppy to hide in, because the only thing I have interested in the flower pots are the ghost shrimp. I'd hate for this fish to die in that jar if it's not enough. I just wonder how I managed to quarantine a group of 3 and then 2 neons in the .5 gallon without any issues?

Snails arent as bad on ammonia as you may thing, of course a mystery snail seems to be the worse of the snails.

Neon tetra have a lot less bio load that a guppy. It isnt necessarily just their poop that goes into measuring a fish's bio load. Pleco and goldfish have some of the highest bio loads.

Guppies dont tend to hide too often in things (my 29g use to be home to up to over a dozen guppies at one point). Once in a while a guppy might swim through something, but most often they spend most of their time in the top part of the tank wondering around, and swim all about the other levels of the tank exploring and trying to find things to get into. They are a very irritating fish to other fish that prefer calm slower fish.

I have heard of some people housing a betta with guppies successfully... but I never followed up to see how well it turned out weeks or months into it. Guppies are generally seen by the betta as a threat... normally due to the coloration with the long fins. (I guess in all fairness guppies sold these days are rather short tailed but once you get them the right environment and food, their finnage can be amazing! I raised guppies with tails so long and flowing their butts couldnt hold them up!)
Anyways, what I am trying to say is... I have a male betta. I know him very well. He has been housed with neons, loaches, rasboras, shrimp (unsuccessfully...he ate it), snails, otos, ADFs, and other things. He puts up with a lot of unusual tankmates. I still wouldnt put a guppy in his tank, ever, for the sake of the guppy.
I am glad you have a back up plan, that is smart.

A half gallon quarantine isnt bad if it is an establish tank to support the bio load. If the environment isnt controlled, and you have no way of telling the water parameters then you never know if that water change schedule is enough to keep their water safe for them. Even if they dont die from an ammonia spike you didnt catch in time right away, it can impact their internals and kill them in days, weeks, or months later... and it will definitely leave the fish vulnerable to illness and disease since the ammonia and stress weakens their immune system.

Just my thoughts on it.

alidawn15 07-02-2011 10:46 PM

I have a second tank in the works that I want to do guppies and a dwarf gourami in at first and then add some cories once it's established. I'm hoping the hornwort I have in the 10 gallon tank is enough of a block/entertainment that they won't notice eachother. I tried a mirror with him and he looked at it for a few seconds and then swam away. I rarely see Dobby go to the surface even to get air which I suppose is strange. The guppies were a solution to my boyfriend buying me a new mystery snail to replace the recently deceased Tonks for our anniversary. To add to the strangeness as I was searching up pond snails for another forum member I found a bb sized baby mystery snail in my tank. I have no idea how that little thing got there. Tonks didnt lay any eggs that I could see that's for sure. It looks like I'll probably be trying Lupin in the 10 gallon tonight and if it doesn't work out I'll send him off to my boyfriends brother who has a 30 gallon(I say it's bigger but haven't had a chance to measure) with a few little fish in it.


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