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gmyers0203 06-10-2011 09:35 AM

Brown spots and "thinning" leaves
 
2 Attachment(s)
Is there something I am doing wrong? These are two of my compacta swords, one of which I believe has been in the tank since I first set it up. The other was probably placed in there two weeks later. So they have both been in there since the end of April. By looking at the pictures, is this an indication of lack of nutrients, too many nutrients, too much or too little light? Any input would be appreciated.

I dose 5 ml of Flourish Comprehensive 2x a week and I also have Flourish root tabs.

redchigh 06-10-2011 10:38 AM

I would say up the flourish, but it looks like a potassium defeciency to me, and flourish doesn't really have high levels of the macro nutrients (The big 3- N, P, and K)

Switch to dosing Flourish the same amount twice a week. The next time you dose, dose 10ml, then 5 twice a week. They should bounce back pretty quickly.

Don't expect the damaged leaves to recover, but the new growth will look healthier.

BTW- Are you sure you have Flourish comprehensive, and not the other products in the flourish line? Sorry if it's a stupid question.

Also, use the tabs- place one close to each plant.

Byron 06-10-2011 11:09 AM

I would caution this.

Are these leaves the original? They appear to be outer leaves, suggesting they are the original leaves on the plant. They can die off when the plant is moved to a new environment, esp from store to home tank. I would first remove them and see if the newer leaves develop this condition.

I would not dose Flourish more than twice a week, especially in combo with root tabs. I am only using it once, and I have absolutely no minerals in my water. The harder the tap water, the less you should require fertilizer additives.

What is the light (be specific); what size tank; and how many fish?

Byron.

redchigh 06-10-2011 11:19 AM

I definately wouldn't dose more than twice a week... In the picture it looks like even the newer leaves are having a problem..

I didn't bring up light because swords do well with a wide variety of light levels.

Did you get them from sweet aquatics by any chance?

gmyers0203 06-10-2011 11:24 AM

Yes, I am using comprehensive. Not a stupid question though, as most of the bottles look identical minus a few word variations!

They are most likely some of the original leaves, but it appears that some of them are coming more from the interior, so they are possibly newer. But not the newest sprouts. My other two compacta are fine so it could be that the initial leaves are finally starting to die off being replaced by the new leaves.

I have two 24" Life-glo bulbs over the tank, a 56 gallon column. One is over the front portion, about 3-4 inches from the front, and the other is over the back portion, about the same distance from the back wall. I currently have 20 fish in there, 7 harlequin rasbora, 5 neon tetra, 5 diamond tetra, and 3 black neon tetra. I also have about a dozen malaysian trumpet snails.

gmyers0203 06-10-2011 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redchigh (Post 697188)
I definately wouldn't dose more than twice a week... In the picture it looks like even the newer leaves are having a problem..

I didn't bring up light because swords do well with a wide variety of light levels.

Did you get them from sweet aquatics by any chance?

I got all of the compacta from my LFS.

The majority of the leaves on both of these plants are doing fine, it just seems like they've started looking worse over the past couple days. And it does not appear that it has spread to other leaves, just the ones that have had a few brown spots for a while.

Byron 06-10-2011 11:46 AM

Light should be fine, no issue there.

On the Flourish Comp to clarify since we are moving around this a bit. One dose should be no more than 5 ml for a 60g tank (2.5 ml = 1/2 teaspoon, per 30g). A second weekly dose 3 days later of the same amount, if needed; this is absolute maximum. But with the root tabs, I would not do more than one weekly dose of 1 teaspoon in your tank.

Diagnosing nutrient issues is very difficult, as symptoms can be similar. I am currently having issues with the larger swords in my 115g, very similar to what you have, except on my plants the spots are much larger and not connected; I gather these can be iron excess, magnesium deficiency, or several other nutrient issues. I have had these plants for years with no issues--until now. The only thing that I have changed in this tank is addition of Flourish root tabs. I find it hard to see this as the problem, but... this is the only tank where this is happening, and the only tank with tabs. May only be co-incidence.

One suggestion you might want to try. Remove the tabs, and get some Plant-Gro sticks. They are much cheaper anyway, and I had tremendous success with them. I can't get them locally (the store no longer carries them) so I got the Flourish tabs to try, and the spots appeared. But first, as suggested previously, I would remove those outer leaves and see if this continues on the newer growth. New leaves always appear from the centre of the crown.

Byron.

gmyers0203 06-10-2011 11:57 AM

It's interesting that you mention that because I feel like those particular plants started looking slightly worse after I put the root tabs in. I've also had trouble with some newer stem plants not staying in place because that portion of the stem that was below the substrate would start to soften, and eventually the stem would float to the top. Most of my other plants appear to have done well with the addition of the root tabs. I suppose it could be an adverse reaction by individual plants, or even just leaves, to the root tabs. I've also noticed some more browning on some of my amazon sword leaves as well as my broad-leaf sagittaria. But it is only on some individual plants or leaves. There are some amazon swords that are responding great to the root tabs, where others do not appear to be having the same reaction. The sagittaria however have bounced back... I thought I was going to lose them, and despite the original leaves browning and dying, I have several new leaves coming up from the bottom. I think the leaves that are dying on my amazon swords are also the original leaves.

I would remove the root tabs... but I don't remember where I put them all?!? Any suggestions on locating them?

I wonder if there is something not right with the Flourish root tabs?

Byron 06-10-2011 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmyers0203 (Post 697214)
It's interesting that you mention that because I feel like those particular plants started looking slightly worse after I put the root tabs in. I've also had trouble with some newer stem plants not staying in place because that portion of the stem that was below the substrate would start to soften, and eventually the stem would float to the top. Most of my other plants appear to have done well with the addition of the root tabs. I suppose it could be an adverse reaction by individual plants, or even just leaves, to the root tabs. I've also noticed some more browning on some of my amazon sword leaves as well as my broad-leaf sagittaria. But it is only on some individual plants or leaves. There are some amazon swords that are responding great to the root tabs, where others do not appear to be having the same reaction. The sagittaria however have bounced back... I thought I was going to lose them, and despite the original leaves browning and dying, I have several new leaves coming up from the bottom. I think the leaves that are dying on my amazon swords are also the original leaves.

I would remove the root tabs... but I don't remember where I put them all?!? Any suggestions on locating them?

I wonder if there is something not right with the Flourish root tabs?

I can't say. I try to decipher all possibilities, this just came forefront in my case. They only last 3 months, so I'm not going to replace mine. You could poke around the gravel next to the problem swords and pull out any tabs remaining; otherwise I would just leave it.

What is your tap water like, in hardness? And what is the tank pH? And temperature? There may be something in these connected to nutrients.

I've not had this "compacta" sword which is a newer hybrid, not a true natural species, and perhaps there is something in this. Just another thought... thinking of your comment on plant species affecting other plant species, what is termed alleopathy, and another very involved issue.

gmyers0203 06-10-2011 12:22 PM

Tank pH is 7.0. I use SeaChem Neutral Regulator with each water change, as recommended on the instructions. The temperature is 78*F.

As far as hardness, I don't have a test kit for that however according to my city's water quality report, this is what I found:

Parameter---------------------------------------- Plant Tap----------------------------------------- MCL **

Temperature, oC ---------------------------------- 13.5
Color, units------------------------------------------- 0.2 ----------------------------------------------15
pH, units ----------------------------------------------8.4 --------------------------------------------->6.5
Free Carbon Dioxide, mg/l ------------------------- 0.30
Total Alkalinity, mg/l as CaCO3 ------------------- 33.1
Total Hardness, mg/l as CaCO3------------------- 27.9
Total Dissolved Solids, mg/l -------------------------147
Specific Conductivity, uS/cm ----------------------- 221
Iron, mg/l -------------------------------------------- 0.02 ---------------------------------------------0.30
Manganese, mg/l ---------------------------------- <0.01 -------------------------------------------- 0.05
Fluoride, mg/l ---------------------------------------- 0.81 ---------------------------------------------4.0
Chloride, mg/l -----------------------------------------14.8
Ammonia, mg/l as N ---------------------------------<0.01
Nitrate, mg/l as N -------------------------------------0.18 ---------------------------------------------10
Silica, mg/l as SiO2 ------------------------------------6.2
Silt Density Index (SDI) ----------------------------- 0.67
Total Coliform Bacteria* -----------------------------Absent -------------------------------------------0
E. Coli* ------------------------------------------------Absent --------------------------------------------0
Total Trihalomethanes, mg/l ------------------------ 0.018 ------------------------------------------0.080


* In 95% of samples collected
**MCL = Maximum Contaminant Level


Certified By:
Vannessa Barnes
Vannessa Barnes, Laboratory Supervisor
NC Lab ID Number 37604
March, 2011


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