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zfarsh 05-05-2011 08:50 PM

Filter Media for Eheim 2217 for planted goldy tank
 
Hi Everyone,
I am buying a Eheim 2217 for a 75 gallon tank, planted, sand substrate, 6 fancy goldfish, 2 bristlenose pleco, 3 Dojo Loach. Plants will be compatible with the goldies.
Question: Should i use the media that already will come with the Eheim 2217, or should i change it, and to what exactly. I dont know if there is carbon included, if so, i would remove that first. I want something that is both effective to help remove crap from the goldies, can contain bacteria for added help to removing crap, not be bad for the plants, and can be cleaned and used for years not having to change monthly or something (exept maybe the fine filter, but i want to minimize this for the other types)
Pls help me with this task.

Mikaila31 05-05-2011 09:10 PM

Get rid of any chemical media like the carbon. I'm not sure what eheims come with out of the box. For media I would personally just walk down the media isle at the petstore. See whats on sale and buy that for sponge pads. I don't care about matching brands or anything like that. A sponge is a sponge. If its the wrong size use scissors and make it the right size lol... Get a big bag of filter floss too(like pillow stuffing) this is the best thing to use for fine filtration. It does need to be replaced sooner. When ever it starts falling apart or clumping up. Mine usually lasts at least a year with monthly cleanings. All the other sponges and ceramics are good for years regardless of what it says on the packaging. Replace them if they start falling apart. If you want to go budget style, use plastic netting-type pot scrubers for the bottom level.

What ever you use the most course/porous sponge should be on the bottom then it should work its way towards the finer sponges and lastly the filter floss. If you have ceramics or bio-only media I would stick them either in the middle or very top. You certainly don't need a bio-only media. It will work just fine full of only sponges. My rena came with some ceramics though, so I wouldn't be surprised if the eheims did too.

zfarsh 05-05-2011 09:14 PM

Hey, thanks for the response, i am doing on my aquaclear 20 for my 10 gallons: Sponge, Bio-media, fine.

On the Canister, does it matter which bio media it comes with, or should i get something in particular that will last forever and help keep those bacterias???

Mikaila31 05-05-2011 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zfarsh (Post 666413)
Hey, thanks for the response, i am doing on my aquaclear 20 for my 10 gallons: Sponge, Bio-media, fine.

On the Canister, does it matter which bio media it comes with, or should i get something in particular that will last forever and help keep those bacterias???

You don't need a biomedia... the sponges will provide plenty of space in most cases for bacteria growth. My canister is the only filter I have with ceramics in it and TBH it doesn't make a ton of difference IMO. That planted tank has a heavy bio-load so nitrates run the highest out of all my tanks. I run an internal with nothing but filterfloss in my 20 gallon along with more plants compared to waste load so it has a bit better water quality just due to how it is setup.

You can buy more ceramics if you want, its really up to you. I'm never picky on brand... if it was me though I would fill it with pot scrubbers, cheap sponges, and filterfloss if it didn't come with enough media out of the box.

edit: Its tank is actually already running right? Just with a different filter? I would just tank what ever mature media you have in the current filters, put it into the canister use whatever else you have if there is extra space and call it good...

zfarsh 05-05-2011 09:48 PM

No, i only have a 10g tank now, buying the 75 gallon soon, the cannister will be in this saturday, wanted to see if i should change the media it comes with in the box.

AbbeysDad 05-06-2011 10:33 AM

Ah Filtration, one of my favorite topics. I have some controversial opinions that I'd like to share. But first, here's a very good post in another forum about filtering media:
Beginners Guide to Filter Media - MonsterFishKeepers.com

First, lets talk about filters. You've chosen a canister and they are very good, especially for larger tanks. But I'm not a 'canister snob' and there are many other good filters out there, including HOB filters. There is a lot to be said for a filter that will allow quick and easy removal of mechanical trapped debris, so long as there is also sufficient bio-media remaining. Actually, most filters, including canisters, don't really do this well. Like my AquaClear 70 HOB, the canisters take water to the bottom and filter upward. The mechanical filtration is done in such a manner as the entire filter has to be taken apart to clean or replace the sponge or floss used for mechanical filtration. The same is true for my AC70 - the sponge is on the bottom with bio-media on top.
The 'trouble' with this is that the debris collects an decomposes, putting dissolved organic compounds in suspension which lowers water quality. What would be better would be to remove this trapped debris at least weekly and only service our bio-filter every month or every other month even. What I'd like to see is a cartridge pre-filter that's easily removed along with a good chamber for bio-filtration. In the meantime, keep your inlet tube high to filter water, not debris and let debris settle in mulm to feed the plants or remove with WWC gravel siphoning.

Then there's the flow rate. There seems to be some rule that suggests that we need to move more water faster in order to have adequate filtration. I've read we need a gph of 5-6 times the size of our tanks. So for a 75g tank, you need a filter with 375 - 450 gph. I think we're better off when the flow is slower....BUT filtering BETTER. A slower flow through a finer media will almost always result in greater clarity than faster water through courser media. So where you can, use finer media with lower flow rates.
(apples and oranges maybe...but I don' think so... In our small above ground pool with a sand filter, in time as debris cause the back pressure to rise and the flow to slow, the water becomes crystal clear. What's happening here is that the debris is actually making a finer and finer filtering media trapping smaller and smaller particulate matter and the resulting water is cleaner and cleaner. Now eventually, I have to back flush and the process begins anew - but it makes the point of finer 'media' and slower flow rate.

Okay - media. There's more choices here than you can shake a stick at...it yer prone to shaking sticks.
The first is mechanical. Some may continue to use old school filter floss. It works, but doesn't clean well and usually gets tossed and replaced. That's okay, but one dimensional. I think the sponges make more sense since they serve double duty. First they make an excellent mechanical to stop debris and second, they create an excellent environment for nitrifying bacteria...much like stand-alone sponge filters. So a sponge is a good choice for the first stage. What comes next is open to great debate. I think there can be great advantage in activated carbon, but sadly it's effectiveness is short lived and left too long, can even release back into the water what it had initially trapped. Many hobbyists have abandoned carbon altogether. I'm not using it and my tanks seem fine. So the next stage is bio-filtration using any media that can provide housing for nitrifying bacteria. As you can see from the link, there are many different things that can be used.
I would summarily exclude plastic bio-balls as well as most smooth plastic medias as they tend to work well in air-water drip systems, but not HOB's and canisters. An exception just might be the lowly nylon kitchen pot scrubbers as combined and slightly compressed, like a sponge, they would provide a vast surface area for bacteria, without flow impedance. Next are the bio-ceramics that suggest miles of surface area due to micro pores. We shouldn't ignore the potential and it seems that most modern bio-filtration systems must contain some bio-ceramics. Now I've been researching these and one stands out, if not with a grain of salt. Seachem makes some bold claims about Matrix. The bold claim is that it can not only house aerobic bacteria to convert ammonia into nitrites and nitrites into nitrates, but can also contain anaerobic bacteria to convert nitrates into nitrogen. No other bio-ceramic manufacturer to my knowledge makes such a claim.
In theory, it may be possible in the tiny recesses of the porous material that in time, 'shmutz' blocks the pore creating an anaerobic environment not unlike some regions of undisturbed substrate. The question is if the region is blocked so as to be anaerobic, how effective is nitrate to nitrogen conversion???

In any event, there are many choices, but there is one thing that represents the most important filtration of all....and that is NONE at all. I've never been to the Amazon, but I'm betting there's no filters in the water.
Fresh water is fresh because it's constantly replaced by rains. So the very best water quality in our aquariums is water maintenance...
- do not over feed.
- do not over stock
- consider growing living plants
- perform weekly tank maintenance with a 25% water change using a gravel siphon (unless you have plants).

Doing these things in conjunction with a decent filter and you will have a clean, happy aquarium. Slack off and your tank and your fish will suffer.

If you made it this far, hope you found some value in the ramblings.

zfarsh 05-06-2011 11:31 AM

Hi Abbeysdad,

I went through your comments, thank you. I had gone through that link too, but wasnt sure how that transfered to a cannister, and i didnt know what are the scrabbers they keep mentioning and recommending, and where to put it.

That said, this would be a Planted Tank, so obviously no Carbon, as you mentioned. I have seen many suggest, Sponge, then Bio, then Fine Filter, however, that is for an HOB (though i am sure concept is similar with cannister, just more area and more options). The other BIG Factor, other than plants being present, are the 6 fancy goldfish, that will bring a high bio-load (the other fish wont be as much factor as the goldies)!!The Canister is chosen as it moves more water, and normally recommended on larger size tanks, also, as it is planted, it does cause as much bubles removing CO2 for a NON-co2 injected, low tech type tank. However, i was shown cheap fixes to that to make water come down gentler from the Aquaclear HOB. I was recommended to start with a cannister, and see how i do. If it needs help, i will get the Aquaclear, which honnestly i love using right now anyways on my small tank.

That Said, the Cannister most likely come with some kind of sponge, which should be re-used endlessly with cleaning in tank water. No problem there, i think.... unless i should be changing that to the scrubbers?? Or other type of Coarse Mech Filter?
Then the Bio Fitler. I have the choice, as menioned by others, to either go sponge (which holds bacteria to a smaller degree), or use dedicated bio media. Perhaps the matrix you have mentioned is best option, and i would have so start reading on it, and have no clue what kind of cost it is, but if this will help give a higher level of filtration in this tank, i will consider it (but keeping cost in mind). Again, I am trying to do low light low tech setup as much as possible, except the filters which i am investing.

Finally, there is the final stage, which i am thinking of re-using a finer filter, tlike the floss, which i already bought alot from Big Al.... However, this is not an aquaclear which i can easily clean the filters every week (with tank water), so i am open to suggestions on this stage as what to use on a cannister. A sponge? A scrubber? i Dont know....

Finally, as mentioned before, in the link provided, they talk highly of the pot scrubbies, where does one get that, and how much are they? And where in the canister / hob would i put that?

AbbeysDad 05-06-2011 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zfarsh (Post 666780)
...Finally, there is the final stage, which i am thinking of re-using a finer filter, tlike the floss, which i already bought alot from Big Al.... However, this is not an aquaclear which i can easily clean the filters every week (with tank water), so i am open to suggestions on this stage as what to use on a cannister. A sponge? A scrubber? i Dont know....

Finally, as mentioned before, in the link provided, they talk highly of the pot scrubbies, where does one get that, and how much are they? And where in the canister / hob would i put that?

If it was me, I'd use sponge or floss as the initial mechanical filter, then I might use the pot scrubbers, followed by bio-ceramic, then a final, fine sponge polisher.

The nylon pot scrubbers can be found in the housewares section of many stores, but I've heard you can get them really cheap at many dollar stores.

Mikaila31 05-06-2011 06:05 PM

I really do not recommend filter floss anywhere near the first media in a canister unless you want to clog the thing. Filter floss is generally very fine, especially when wet. It does biological and very fine mechanical filtration. I use mine as the very very last media water flows through in my canister. Then I fill gaps with the stuff.

The eheim 2217 should be plenty all by itself for your tank. My 55 gallon is stocked heavier and is a planted tank as well. I use a rena xp3 which does just fine if flow is turned down halfway lol. Water stays clear unless the tanks larger inhabitants are moving around. I clean mine every 4-6 weeks I think. Below is a picture of some of the stuff that comes out of the media, definitely not all of it...;-)

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...1/P1200224.jpg

zfarsh 05-06-2011 08:16 PM

Hi, thanks for the responses.

I went to Big Al to see what was included media. I guess i would start by changing the Carbon by Purigen, seems like an easy change. I hurd good things about the Ehfisubstrat Pro, so no problem there. However, what is the ehfimech, looks like noodles, how can this be the mech, is it any good? Should i change this to a sponge or scrubber?


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