Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources

Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/)
-   Fish Breeding (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/fish-breeding/)
-   -   Finally got a breeding pair of Angels (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/fish-breeding/finally-got-breeding-pair-angels-68282/)

trit0n2003 04-17-2011 10:28 PM

Finally got a breeding pair of Angels
 
Finally got a breeding pair of angels!

Marble and a Gold paired up in my tank that I've been raising since babies. Just moved them to a 20g breeder today at about 4 hours ago. Had an HOB already running and popped it on, filled the 20 with 60% tank water and 40% new water.

Tank has

-HOB with Sponge over filter intake
-Heater
-upside down pot for eggs
-Air stone

I came home just now and look what happened! I had to unplug that heater and put in another one lol

http://tapa.tk/mu/6297c24d-a8d2-80b1.jpg

Gonna let them raise the fry themselves until they get it right and become good parents with practice, might take a while since it is their first spawn.

It's always been a goal of mine to see the parents rear the young like in nature.

Anyone with angelfish genetics info know the possible fry outcomes? I'm assuming marble is dominant over the recessive gold gene. But i dont know what the parents of the marble were so it could be heterogenous or homogenous for the gene. The gold from what ive seen has to be double recessive for the gold color so im pretty sure what that one is.

Oh and the male is the gold and the female is the marble.


Ill keep you all updated if you want on their breeding activity and if they become good parents!

bettababy 04-18-2011 06:23 PM

Trying to sort out the geneics of store bought angel fish is near impossible unless you know their history through a number of generations. You will see genetic traits that can span 5+ generations show up in the fry.

Good luck with your pair and their parenting abilities.

novakovich 04-19-2011 06:02 PM

Congrats!
 
Congratulations,

I've been raising 8 since they were nickel-sized. I'm hoping to get a pair or two. Post pics of fry when you see some!

trit0n2003 04-19-2011 06:45 PM

Ya that's what I did too, I got them probably quarter size and been waiting patiently lol

I'll see what happens, more turned white form being unfertilized but I'm hoping to see wrigglers tomorrow, the laid exactly 48 hours ago so tomorrow around 4pm and after I'll start seeing them.

On the 5th day I'm going to setup a BBS bottle and get some food ready.

I'm also amazed the parents have been so good with the care and haven't eaten the eggs yet. It's their first spawn!

bettababy 04-19-2011 11:08 PM

I guess I have had better luck than some with finding pairs. I won 6 dime size angels online in a give away and decided to raise them all. By the time they were quarter size I had 3 bonded pairs, and soon after all 3 spawned within a day of each other. I still have 2 pairs that spawn regularly, and one of time finally got it right about 5 wks ago. I have about 75 fry that are doing great. The parents suddenly went from eating them and/or losing them to the other fish to raising a good spawn in a matter of 3 wks. If you watch them as they mature, its a real learning experience for them. Each spawn they do something different in their attempt to get it right. My successful pair eventually learned to rearrange the tank to suit their needs, forming a boundary about 1/2 way across the 90 gallon, emptying their 1/2 of anything they could find a way to move. This made it easier for them to defend the fry from all the others, and this new spawn was raised with a red tail shark in the tank, among other things. I have since moved out everything but the shark, angels, and rubber pleco and they are all thriving together.
My 2nd pair is still in the learning process, still spawning about every 1 - 2 wks, sometimes getting as far as wigglers and then suddenly everything is gone. In watching the first pair I have learned also, and am slowly changing conditions in this tank to provide the same "protections" in the 90 gallon with the decor barrier, etc.

I also noticed that the ram's horn snails love angelfish eggs, and the parents need to learn to pluck them off. I have done it for them and the successful pair, after watching me do it so often, finally began doing it themselves. So for anyone who wants to help their spawning pair along, watch them closely. After a while it gets to be obvious what problems they are having, which makes it easier to step in and help them out. They're very smart if you just allow them the time to learn.

trit0n2003 04-20-2011 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bettababy (Post 653478)
I guess I have had better luck than some with finding pairs. I won 6 dime size angels online in a give away and decided to raise them all. By the time they were quarter size I had 3 bonded pairs, and soon after all 3 spawned within a day of each other. I still have 2 pairs that spawn regularly, and one of time finally got it right about 5 wks ago. I have about 75 fry that are doing great. The parents suddenly went from eating them and/or losing them to the other fish to raising a good spawn in a matter of 3 wks. If you watch them as they mature, its a real learning experience for them. Each spawn they do something different in their attempt to get it right. My successful pair eventually learned to rearrange the tank to suit their needs, forming a boundary about 1/2 way across the 90 gallon, emptying their 1/2 of anything they could find a way to move. This made it easier for them to defend the fry from all the others, and this new spawn was raised with a red tail shark in the tank, among other things. I have since moved out everything but the shark, angels, and rubber pleco and they are all thriving together.
My 2nd pair is still in the learning process, still spawning about every 1 - 2 wks, sometimes getting as far as wigglers and then suddenly everything is gone. In watching the first pair I have learned also, and am slowly changing conditions in this tank to provide the same "protections" in the 90 gallon with the decor barrier, etc.

I also noticed that the ram's horn snails love angelfish eggs, and the parents need to learn to pluck them off. I have done it for them and the successful pair, after watching me do it so often, finally began doing it themselves. So for anyone who wants to help their spawning pair along, watch them closely. After a while it gets to be obvious what problems they are having, which makes it easier to step in and help them out. They're very smart if you just allow them the time to learn.


Thats awesome, i am excited to watch them learn.

I just looked at the eggs right now and its only been about 50ish hours since the spawn. Many turned white from being unfertilized but i am already getting wigglers!

I thought this was supposed to happen at about 72 hours? Tank is only at 80 degrees.

But i did notice some of the eggs are now missing, maybe the parents have started eating some. I will update on the rest soon!

bettababy 04-20-2011 01:19 AM

I have the same issue with the pair that is still learning. The pair now doing great had the same issue about 4 or 5 times before success. I have not yet been able to pinpoint what is causing the premature hatching, if that is indeed what is happening. I notice those fry tend to be much smaller than the ones who are now doing well and growing fast, and they are much weaker as wigglers, too.
I have worked with a temp range of 82 - 76, have had the best luck at 78.

Another thing I have tried when they were eating wigglers or suddenly eat them overnight once they go free swimming... I leave a light on 24/7 for them. The 90 gallon has HOT5 over it and also a T5, so at night the T5 stays on while the other goes off. In the other tank I have the option of turning on both or 1 of the 2 bulbs, so the brighter of the 2 goes off at night. Yes, it causes algae issues, in particular hair algae... but that algae is also a great breeding ground for natural food supply for the fry when they start eating. Between their redecorating and the hair algae the tank isn't very "pretty" right now, but it is the perfect environment for their needs and they are thriving in it. As long as water quality stays pristine, nitrates well under 20, no ammonia or nitrite, even traces... its just a matter of time until I can "clean it up" when the fry are older. I am considering leaving it as is in prep for the next spawn that will come soon after I take these away.

If there are other fish in the tank that makes a difference too. The threat level from the other fish, how exhausted the parents are trying to fend off other fish, how distracted that keeps them, etc. all plays a huge part in how they respond to the new fry.

Enjoy the first few spawns and think of them as a learning experience for you as much as for the fish. If you pay close enough attention you will be able to help them sort it out. All pairs are different in personality and habit, so what works for one will not always work for another, some learn faster than others, and some never learn.
If you are really in want of raising angel fry, you may consider taking the eggs and hatching/raising them yourself in another tank. I was not in dire need to raise them, content to wait and see if their present conditions would allow it and would enjoy it "if" it happened. It wasn't until I realized they were actually learning with each spawn that I took more interest in seeing them get it right and began to help them. Once the fry were free swimming I noticed each day some would disappear, so I would stay up and watch the tank from a distance at night to see who the culprit was, then move that fish or group of fish out to another tank.

2 nights ago I sat for an hour and watched the red tail shark swim out and around with the fry, seeming to amuse himself with watching them scatter when he got too close, but never attempting to eat or harm them. I got the impression he was curious and not a threat, which would explain why the parents didn't get overly protective as he swam among their fry. If he moved too fast the parents chased him off, but if he was just gliding and checking things out, they let him be. In that hour he spent most of it with the fry and didn't harm a single one. Yet... 5 cherry barbs had to be moved to another tank, 2 gold barbs, and a single red & blue columbian tetra, because they stalked and ate the fry regularly.

Let the fish teach you... they will if you pay attention.

trit0n2003 04-20-2011 07:23 PM

Doing well so far, kinda got scared that the parents decided to move the fry to this location! but they seem okay so far lol Watch in 720p HD, they are on the filter sponge


trit0n2003 04-22-2011 11:34 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...6/IMG_2191.jpg

trit0n2003 04-24-2011 05:34 PM

Day 7 Free swimmers
 
Day 7 Free Swimmers Video


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:32 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2