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buckmanrules 04-15-2011 04:39 PM

Trying to Develop Tri-Color Koi Sword
2 Attachment(s)
I hope I am not re-creating the wheel.
I am trying to develop a tri color koi swordtail that is always red on the head and white and black toward mid section and tail.
I have been working on this for a year.
I think I got it.
What do you think?? :-)

Photo is of Mom and two of her babes.

Marginatus 04-16-2011 12:10 PM

Looking good. It will be nice to see them as adults to see what their fin shape, body shape, size etc is like, keep us informed please.

I still think you can go further to seperate the colours though. Are you breeding using the colony method or selecting individual males and females?

buckmanrules 04-16-2011 04:40 PM

Hi! I am breeding from individuals. Only have 18 fish and most are juvenile yet. I have one female and one santa koi male that started. Female has only thrown only 2, 12 and 4 so it has been slow going.

Marginatus 04-16-2011 06:02 PM

I'm not really familiar with Swortail genetics but the koi strain looks identical to the one you find in Angelfish.

If I remember correctly the Angelfish strain have a double dose of the 'blush' gene so I assume that's the same for the Swordtails?

They also show the orange/red forehead and the black marble markings in exactly the same way. It's fascinating that two completely unrelated species can show exactly the same response to what I presume is exactly the same gene.

I highly recommend you have a look at what Angelfish breeders have done with this gene and in particular Mellow Aquatics, they've eliminated the white in some strains so you have completely orange fish with black marbling...very impressive.

BTW I'm not at all surprised that you have low reproduction rates, these strains are often highly inbred to ensure the passing on of the double dose of this gene and of course that can mean low fertility. It's also not a very robust strain in Angels...Whether that's to do with their inbred nature or if it's something related to the gene itself I'm not sure, it may even be both.

Good luck with your breeding, I'm sure there's more that can be done to manipulate the colours.

buckmanrules 04-17-2011 06:54 AM

It just happens I am breeding koi angels also! The angels tho do not breed true. The swords so far have. You are absolutely right I believe about the inbred nature of this fish. I tried the santa koi swords to breed for sale and they threw very small broods and what they did thriow was mostly junk, mixed up fish. I now understand why they are expensive fish. With some fish which is highly hybred like a painted sword you introduce velvet males. As a result you get a mix of velvets and painted swords but much, much more of them as time goes by.
I wanted to insert a photo of koi angels with this message but I do not see how I can do it by this quick response. They are beautiful! I've put a koi angel photo on my profile page. Thanks!

Marginatus 04-17-2011 01:30 PM

I've had a look in your profile, fantastic looking Angels. I used to breed Angels and they're very pretty fish but I find livebearers much more manageable. My last Angel brood was Big...over 250 juvenile Angels is not easy to manage!

I hear what you're saying about those 'difficult' strains. That's the trouble with recessive genes, you can't readily outcross without going back to square one. I'm trying something along those lines at the moment with magenta Guppies. There are at least four genes that are responsible for the magenta colour so I'll probably lose it completely but it's all part of the learning process, I may discover something along the way.

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