Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources

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-   -   Betta Sick (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/tropical-fish-diseases/betta-sick-6752/)

tcarita 06-28-2007 06:31 AM

Betta Sick
 
Hi, this is my first message, and i start with trouble...
I hope my English is OK and really hope this is THE Fish Forum

I have a new tank setup for more than a month...

I bought a few beautifully Bettas from Singapore and they arrived by mail a few weeks ago, i was scared when i saw the package and the conditions of travel and it took 12 days to arrive (i will never again do that).

All fish were a bit stunned and stayed on the bottom of the tank for around 1 day before moving around, the male betta was and is ok

2 of the black females had spots (ikt) but i treated them well and after 3 days they started to swim around

One of the other females a red one was very active and had the belie swollen and a white dot behind the anal fin, in the pet store they told me that she was with eggs, but i think its too much, a friend saw a photo and told me it was dropsy so i panicked.

I isolated her yesterday in a 1 Gal tank, added a plastic plant, boiled some peas for her and added some salt on the water and started to give her some anti parasitic medicine, she is active but really sad.

Worse than that one of the other females started to get the bellie swollen (less than the red) and a white dot appeared behind the annal fin like the red female..

Ok here is the photo, anyone could help me?
http://www.blueshark.com.pt/aquario/femea.jpg

Lupin 06-28-2007 08:28 PM

Welcome to Fishforum.com.:wave:

All photos showed your bettas indeed exhibiting a symptom of dropsy. Unfortunately, dropsy is incurable, however, there are rare cases where the fish may be able to recover from it. Dropsy is usually associated by organ failure but other causes can also contribute to it. Bad water quality, bad food quality, and internal parasites in particular would cause dropsy.

bettababy 07-02-2007 03:07 PM

One of the first indicators of dropsy is the swollen belly, however, it is hard to tell in the photos if the scales are raised and "standing up"? If the scales are smooth, then I am inclinded to say it is NOT dropsy, as this is the other major symptom of that disease.
The white dot you are seeing is called an "egg spot" or "egg tube" and all female bettas have this. Sometimes it can be seen more when the female is "egg bound", which could be the case with the fish I see in the photos. If the fish are in good healthy conditions, well fed, and mixed with a male, my first thought would be that they are full of eggs and have not mated to push the eggs out through the egg tube. If you are keeping multiple females in the same tank with a male, may I warn of the dangers of such a thing. For starters, bettas can be extrememely aggressive, females as much if not more so that even the males. It is always best, especially if preparing to breed bettas, that they each have their own bowl or small tank. Once ready for breeding, select 1 female and introduce her to the male slowly, giving him time to build a bubble nest before she is released into his tank.
In the case of being egg bound, usually the body will reabsorb the eggs after a period of time.
Bettas mixed into a "community" situation, especially with other bettas, will tend to be less active due to territorial issues. They tend to spend most of their time fighting for and protecting their chosen territory, and this is never a healthy situation. This is very dangerous and stressful for the fish. If the male chooses 1 of them to mate with, the others will intrude and the situation could be deadly for all fish involved.
What kind of foods are you offering and how often? How often are you doing water changes?
I'll help all I can, but the more information you can provide the easier it will be to find the answers. Be careful medicating bettas. They are very sensitive to most medications, and it can cause more harm than good.
Good Luck to you and your fish.

bettababy 07-02-2007 03:08 PM

One of the first indicators of dropsy is the swollen belly, however, it is hard to tell in the photos if the scales are raised and "standing up"? If the scales are smooth, then I am inclinded to say it is NOT dropsy, as this is the other major symptom of that disease.
The white dot you are seeing is called an "egg spot" or "egg tube" and all female bettas have this. Sometimes it can be seen more when the female is "egg bound", which could be the case with the fish I see in the photos. If the fish are in good healthy conditions, well fed, and mixed with a male, my first thought would be that they are full of eggs and have not mated to push the eggs out through the egg tube. If you are keeping multiple females in the same tank with a male, may I warn of the dangers of such a thing. For starters, bettas can be extrememely aggressive, females as much if not more so that even the males. It is always best, especially if preparing to breed bettas, that they each have their own bowl or small tank. Once ready for breeding, select 1 female and introduce her to the male slowly, giving him time to build a bubble nest before she is released into his tank.
In the case of being egg bound, usually the body will reabsorb the eggs after a period of time.
Bettas mixed into a "community" situation, especially with other bettas, will tend to be less active due to territorial issues. They tend to spend most of their time fighting for and protecting their chosen territory, and this is never a healthy situation. This is very dangerous and stressful for the fish. If the male chooses 1 of them to mate with, the others will intrude and the situation could be deadly for all fish involved.
What kind of foods are you offering and how often? How often are you doing water changes?
I'll help all I can, but the more information you can provide the easier it will be to find the answers. Be careful medicating bettas. They are very sensitive to most medications, and it can cause more harm than good.
Good Luck to you and your fish.

tcarita 07-02-2007 05:16 PM

Hi Betababby

Thank's for your reply...

Indeed they are active and eat well... i keep the Male and 3 females in a 200L tank with plenty of space for them to hide and well planted, the tank has other creatures and the male betta is often curious with them spending lots of time observing but it never turns badboy to them, mostly he get irritated with his reflection or the females but he does not chance them a lot they are way faster and I see them provoking him a lot of time.

I have 12 rasboras harlequin, 2 beaufortias, 1 tiger pleco, 2 molies and 2 botias.

First thing i feed them once per day and i vary them, arthemia flakes, mixed flakes, betta food (small floating balls), and other mixed i can't remember.. i will certainly introduce later on frozen food.

I took the red female from the aquarium to a small 1 gallon hospital, and 2 days after that the biggest black female got the "egg spot" exposed and started to get the belie big, so i do believe its not "dropsy" but simply they want to prcriate.. well the aquarium is not optimum for that, i placed a spot for the male make the bubble next but he does not seam interested...

My objective is to create a place were they (bettas, a fish i hallways loved and pained me to see them in little glasses) can live in a wide space, no more than a male and lots of females so they don't need to be runnbing away from him all the time...

Another strange thing, at night when they are all sleep, most of the females approach him and spend lots of hours floating together, he eve opens the fins when they are near him but nothing more.. pretty strange :-P

bettababy 07-02-2007 06:20 PM

There is nothing strange about the fanning of the fins... that is a typical display for aggression and/or mating behavior. I would still suggest seperating the females from the male. It sounds to me that the male has too many options in a large tank, and this is not an optimal situation for any of them.
In a wild habitat, bettas occupy puddles in the rice paddies of Asia. They prefer shallow and smaller habitats in captivity. Your females appear to be ready to spawn with your male, but with that kind of competiton in one tank, it is not likely to happen safely.
I would highly suggest you do some reading about the spawning habits of bettas to better understand why I am suggesting seperating them.
It is not cruel to keep them in small tanks alone, and anything over 10 gallons can actually be dangerous for them as they age because they find it difficult to get to the surface to breath the air. Bettas do not breath from passing water through the gills like most other fish, they get their oxygen from the air at the surface. With this in mind, each fish needs space of its own at the surface to go for air.
I am not surprised that the male has built no bubble nest in a tank of that size with so many other fish in the tank. If constantly exposed to the male, your females may be egg bound more often than not, which can make them quite uncomfortable. The only way to give them a break is going to be to seperate them.

mHeinitz57 07-03-2007 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bettababy
It is not cruel to keep them in small tanks alone, and anything over 10 gallons can actually be dangerous for them as they age because they find it difficult to get to the surface to breath the air. Bettas do not breath from passing water through the gills like most other fish, they get their oxygen from the air at the surface. With this in mind, each fish needs space of its own at the surface to go for air.

Actually the labyrinth organ (the organ that allows bettas to gulp an airbubble from the surface and absorb oxygen from it) is so that the bettas can breath in oxygen-depleted waters such as stagnant rice patties. However, their gills are still fully functional and they do not need to go to the surface to breath. For several months out of the year those rice fields are flooded and everyone is in the same deep waters together. In a large enough tank males can be housed together. Bettas do not fight to the death usually out in the wild, just till one of them gives up and goes away. So you would just need a big enough tank for one to retreat...you may still have to deal with injuries though. I think bettas are perfectly fine in large tanks as long as they remain fairly undisturbed. Bettababy is right though that males and females should be seperated in your tank so everyone can be more at peace.

tcarita 07-03-2007 07:51 AM

Thank you mHeinitz57

Unfortunately the information around in other forums and sites is that you can keep 1 Male and 3 or + females + a number of other fishes that don't care about Bettas....

So I planed this aquarium and bought the fishes from Singapore and now i don't have any more space to separate the females.

He does not harass them a lot they run away fast and if he insists in chasing them they will dive into the vegetation or hide in the rocks... i probably need to add more plants then and some old pieces of wood to make better hideouts...

mHeinitz57 07-03-2007 08:29 AM

what size tank are they all in now? Are you wanting to breed the bettas or just kind of let nature take it's course with them? What you're doing is fine but it won't be the optimal way to get successful breeding and lots of fry. Once breeding does occur, the male will have a harder time defending his bubble nest and caring for the young in a larger tank. Your better bet is to set up a small tank for the male and then introduce the females as they become ready with eggs.
I used to use a 2 gallon eclipse setup with heater and a few hiding spots in there for my male. As a female would show with eggs I would place her in a plastic container suspened in the male's tank. If he didn't already have a bubble nest made, this usually initiated him to make one. He would just go back and forth showing for the female and making his nest. This also allowed the female to begin being "subdued" while being protected by the plastic container. Once mating would occur she would be removed shortly after if she did not participate in picking up eggs and then checked for any injury.

tcarita 07-03-2007 08:49 AM

its a 200L (52Gal) tank an i did not want to actively reproduce bettas i just wanted to have them happy and free and in good conditions

I just got scared with the big belie


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