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What will eat this algae?

5K views 37 replies 8 participants last post by  shunyata 
#1 ·
Hey! I have a variety of algae eaters, but none seem to want to eat this stuff: Algae | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Tank occupants:

Betta
African Dwarf Frog
Nerite Snail x2
Amano Shrimp x4
'Yellow' Shrimp x5
Red Crystal Shrimp X2
Black Crystal Shrimp

I don't mind a little algae (it's actually quite pretty IMO), but it is starting to smother my other plants. So, ideas? :)
 
#2 ·
Oh, yuck! It's the dreaded cyanobacteria (also known as blue green algae) and it's a bacteria, not algae and no one will eat this crud. Your best bet is to remove as much of it as you can manually. What type of lighting, lighting schedule, frequency of water changes, how heavily planted is this tank?
If not removed manually this stuff will take over your entire tank, if you let it. I just finshed doing battle with it myself. Unlike you I think the stuff is beyond ugly! :lol:
 
#5 · (Edited)
PS. What are you water parameters?? NitrAte, specifically.
Eek!! I'll start the manual battle! 8)

Lighting: 65W CF 10hrs a day. I reduced it from 12 hours about a week ago and its growth slowed. Should I reduce it more?

Plants:
Red Tiger Lotus x2
Banana Plant x2
Dwarf Hair Grass
Duckweed (big & small)
Corkscrew Val (with 4 new runners)
Anubis

Water changes: every 2-4 weeks

PH: 8.0
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Phosphate: 1ppm (maybe 1.5)

No 'pungent' smell in my tank? Could it be something else?

BTW, is it possible that this stuff is what killed my Apple Snails? Never did solve that mystery.
 
#8 ·
I'm not a fan of using antibiotics to kill the cyano. Yes, it is safe for the tank's occupants but at the same time it WILL also nuke your biobed. And nuking the biobed, at the same time as when all the cyano goes through a die off, can put the entire tank at risk of crashing. Not worth it IMHO.

PS. I doubt the cyano killed your snails. Must have been something else that caused that.
 
#7 ·
No reading for nitrates?? Odd, in a cycled tank. Are you shaking the heck out of those reagents? (I'm assuming you are using a liquid test kit?)
If it were me, I'd step up water changes to once a week, at least 30%. If there are excess organics in the tank you'll be ridding the tank of them. What size tank, I forgot to ask? If this was a 20gl tank with 65watts of CFL I'd have to say that it was way more light than the tank needs and could be a contributing factor. What is the Kelvin rating on your bulbs?
 
#9 ·
Yep, shaking it like crazy. API Freshwater test kit (except the phosphate reading, that came from the reef kit). I use to get nitrate readings, but after adding the duckweed it went away. <3 Duckweed!

It's a 15 gallon tank and ya, it's too much light. Worse, it's actually a 2-light set I run it without the 65W actinic. I'm only using the 65W 12000k daylight bulb. I haven't downgraded because it was a Christmas gift, but if this continues I may have no choice.

Did a 30% water change; great minds think alike ;). I missed a couple spots, but I need sleep. 8) I'll do weekly water changes and continue the war. I think my plants can handle a few lights-off days, so I'll also try that.

there are solutions you can buy to add to your tank that will kill cyanobacteria without killing the occupants of your tank
I appreciate the suggestion, but I'm going to try chemical-free first. That's just how I roll. :)
 
#11 · (Edited)
Straight off the top of my head I'm going to say lighting is your issue. 65 watts over a 15gl is way too much light. If you change your lighting set up, manually remove all the cyano that you can, and keep on top of weekly water changes I'm sure that will set up an environment that the cyano is alot less likley to reproduce in. I predict changing youe lighting will solve the cyano issue. Once you have the proper lighting (a full spectrum (6500K) 20 watt bulb should do just fine) it's ok to leave the lights on for a longer period, ten hours would be fine.
 
#12 ·
Ok, looking over downgrade options and ran into a snag. In the CF straight-pin category, I can't find anything under 55W at the 21" size. Since I don't want to unevenly light my tank using a really short bulb, the best option seems to be a new fixture.

So thinking, maybe I can turn this situation into an upgrade by going LED. Would the 400 Lumens version of this strike the right balance: Our Products? I want to make sure my plants will still be happy.

Also, I was reading up on controlling algae & cyanobacteria. Seems I may be able to keep my lighting if I can get the phosphates under control. Sounds like mixing tap with RO water at water changes would help that greatly. That would be easy enough since I already have RO water handy.

Or maybe it is best if I do both? 8)
 
#15 · (Edited)
I've read using old bulbs can cause algae blooms. Considering this bulb was used when I got it and it's been a few months, maybe all I need is replace it with a new 55W 6700k bulb (can't find 6500k in CF)? Does that sound ok, or is it still too bright?

Another option is to go over to T5s. I found a freshwater-specific light that may do the trick. It's by AquaticLife and has a 24W 6000k bulb, and a 650nm 'red' bulb. Or is 48W still too much? *hehe*
 
#16 ·
Kymmie asked me to look into this thread, and having read through it, I would say the very excessive light caused the cyanobacteria bloom. I've had this too.

On a 15g tank the most light you would need is one T8 fluorescent tube (I had this over my 15g years ago) or, probably better and certainly cheaper, an incandescent fixture with two screw-in bulbs, and use two 10w 6500K Daylight bulbs like GE makes. I have this over my 10g and 20g and the plants are thriving. And there is no cyano either;-).

Are you using any fertilizer for the plants?

The problem with your existing light is that is is not only too much intensity (to balance the nutrients) but depending upon the spectrum it is probably too much blue and not sufficient red. Plants need red and blue, nothing else. The GE daylight bulbs with 6500K are well suited to plants. And an incandescent fixture is much less expensive than anything else.

Cyano is caused by high organics in the presence of light. Sufficient plants could use the organics and light if all nutrients were present (hence my question on ferts) but this has a cap and the excessive light is beyond that. The duckweed probably helped or it would be even worse; this plant is astounding at consuming nutrients.

Byron.
 
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#17 · (Edited)
No fertilizers.

I totally get that the spectrum is off. What I don't get is the idea that 15-20W is enough. Those Red Tiger Lotus are my centerpiece and need 'medium-high lighting'. I've been told by many others this means 2-4wpg. That translates out to 30-60W.

If I didn't have this plant, I'd agree with your recommendation. But everything I've read and been told up to this point says that its is just not enough. I hope you can see why I'm so confused here.

Can you say with complete confidence that dropping my lighting so low won't kill my Lotus? Will it ever bloom under such low light?
 
#23 ·
Just picking up on a couple of questions/issues since I last posted.

Spectrum is as important if not moreso than intensity. Red-leaf plants need more red light than green-leaf plants. The colour of the leaves is due to the light colour that is being reflected off the leaf. This is one reason why plants do not need green light, only red and blue--they reflect green. In the case of red-leaf plants, more intense light is needed to compensate, otherwise the leaf will tend to be less red and more olive green/red or brownish/red, depending upon plant species. Having blue-heightened lights over the tank as you have is not going to help a red-leaf plant. And therefore, providing the proper spectrum will allow you to reduce the intensity.

Watts per gallon really means little as there are so many factors plus the type of light--T8 for instance is more intense than T12 in identical sized tubes of identical spectrum and identical watts. And some manufacturers make tubes with more intensity and less wattage (to save energy), so a 32w can be equal to a 40w of the same spectrum/type.

As for red tiger lotus, I have this plant in my 29g and 33g tanks (one in each) under one Life-Glo tube (6700K). The 29g tube is 20w, the 33g is 25w, and the plants are growing fine for me though I know I could increase the light and get brighter red. Flowering in an aquarium is, according to Kasselmann, very rare. And the flowers only open at night (in darkness).

There is a balance in all this. Light must be adequate in spectrum and intensity to begin with, and then nutrients must be in balance with that. If anything is missing, the plants will slow their growth, and in extreme cases may die off. You big issue is the light, as I think I have explained, but if not please ask and I will elaborate.

Second though is the lack of nutrients. Without adding fertilizers the plants are struggling. They cannot make use of the light, which is why algae and/or cyanobacteria appears. These organisms do not care about the type of light. Algae will flourish in very blue light, in which plants would not even last [I'm talking total blue, just to be clear]. In mixed light that is not balanced, plants can make use of it and algae/cyano will. You obviously have high organics from the fish, fish food, source water--otherwise cyano would not be so bad. But something is bound to be missing. Plants need 17 nutrients, and while some occur in tap water (if it is hard), some in fish foods, and some from organics (decomposing waste, etc), some are certain to be missing.

Byron.
 
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#25 ·
Second though is the lack of nutrients. Without adding fertilizers the plants are struggling. They cannot make use of the light, which is why algae and/or cyanobacteria appears. These organisms do not care about the type of light. Algae will flourish in very blue light, in which plants would not even last [I'm talking total blue, just to be clear]. In mixed light that is not balanced, plants can make use of it and algae/cyano will. You obviously have high organics from the fish, fish food, source water--otherwise cyano would not be so bad. But something is bound to be missing. Plants need 17 nutrients, and while some occur in tap water (if it is hard), some in fish foods, and some from organics (decomposing waste, etc), some are certain to be missing.

Byron.
I don't want to change too many things at once. So I'm not going to use ferts immediately. But I'd still greatly appreciate your advice on which type/brand is good for my given situation. My plants are in 'black beauty' gravel; which I vacuum with each water change. I only use Prime with water changes. :)
 
#24 ·
Thank you both again for all this amazing information! Earlier today I placed the order for the Hagen single HO T5 strip and a Life-Glo bulb. So we are on track for lights. :D

I also ordered some Purigen and The Bag (gotta love the 'original' name *sarcasm*). A lil pricey, but after aunt kymmie's mention I researched the *bleep* of out this stuff and it sounds very worthwhile.

Looks like I also need the Purigen for my new reef tank; my reef-expert friend confirmed today that what I'm seeing in there is also cyano. The lighting on that tank is appropriate for my long term plans, so I gotta attack it from another angle. Luckily my clean up crew in there is eating the stuff, just not quite fast enough. :)
 
#27 ·
Thank you both again for all this amazing information! Earlier today I placed the order for the Hagen single HO T5 strip and a Life-Glo bulb. So we are on track for lights. :D

I also ordered some Purigen and The Bag (gotta love the 'original' name *sarcasm*). A lil pricey, but after aunt kymmie's mention I researched the *bleep* of out this stuff and it sounds very worthwhile.

Looks like I also need the Purigen for my new reef tank; my reef-expert friend confirmed today that what I'm seeing in there is also cyano. The lighting on that tank is appropriate for my long term plans, so I gotta attack it from another angle. Luckily my clean up crew in there is eating the stuff, just not quite fast enough. :)
Yes, it's a little pricey but well worth it, IMO. It lasts six months, can be "recharged" by cleaning it in a bleach soak. I don't plan on recharging mine, I will just replace it. 1077 turned me onto using it, he used it in his discus tank, and so far I'm really impressed with the results. I think you will be too!

I know Eileen mentioned she only has her lights on from 1 to 8pm (seven hours total) and if you are keeping low light plants that's not a problem. I'm not sure of Eileen's plant list.
If I did any less than my lighting schedule (timers-on at 10am and off at 9pm) I know my particular plants would suffer. You and I keep alot of the same plants in our tanks so I think somewhere in the 10 to 11 hour range is good. Congrats on getting new lights, I know you and your tank are going to be happy with this change!!
 
#31 ·
Thzayt's looking nice; as the plants grow in, it will fill up nicely.

I see I didn't answer your Excel question, sorry I missed it. No, I do not use it or recommend it. Excel is a carbon additive, and leaving aside the issue of its difference from CO2, I do not recommend adding carbon by either method in a low-tech or natural method system. Maintaining a balance betweeen light and nutrients is the key to any successful healthy planted aquarium, and once you start increasing one specific part of that equation, like carbon, you are upsetting the existing balance and moving it to a higher level which means increasing light and other nutrients to maintain a balance. Keep it simple.

Byron.
 
#32 ·
Byron, I was going to get the Excel and get rid of my big 16.9 fl. oz bottle of Florish Comrehensive as I noticed when I used it the algae got worse on my tanks glass. You said that this stuff if the best but how much of it should I be using? I have a two 3 gal, 6 gal, 10 gal, 20 gal, 30 gal. size tanks.The directions say 1 cap for every 60 gal, so my 30 gal. would be 1/2 cap not sure about the small ones maybe 1/8 tsp. It says once or twice a week. Should I use it when doing my weekly water changes or once a month. I'm just not sure and was going to craigslist it or take to my fish club auction. I have 1 15 watt bulb and all low light plants and on a timer for 7 hrs a day for light. I also do a 20-25% water change at the end of each week.
 
#34 ·
Byron, I was going to get the Excel and get rid of my big 16.9 fl. oz bottle of Florish Comrehensive as I noticed when I used it the algae got worse on my tanks glass. You said that this stuff if the best but how much of it should I be using? I have a two 3 gal, 6 gal, 10 gal, 20 gal, 30 gal. size tanks.The directions say 1 cap for every 60 gal, so my 30 gal. would be 1/2 cap not sure about the small ones maybe 1/8 tsp. It says once or twice a week. Should I use it when doing my weekly water changes or once a month. I'm just not sure and was going to craigslist it or take to my fish club auction. I have 1 15 watt bulb and all low light plants and on a timer for 7 hrs a day for light. I also do a 20-25% water change at the end of each week.
Eileen, Excel is simply carbon, nothing more (in terms of nutrients), so it is not a general or comprehensive/complete fertilizer. As you undoubtedly know from my many posts, plants require some 17 nutrients, of which carbon is only one, albeit a macro-nutrient. Unless all 17 are available, plants can't utilize more carbon, or more light, etc. That balance again.

There is a lot more carbon from CO2 in most aquaria than many realize; fish obviously produce it during respiration, but so do plants--and so does bacteria, and there is more CO2 from bacteria than the fish and plants combined. Provided the other nutrients are also present, and the light is adequate (in intensity, spectrum and duration), the plants will be thriving. Slower growth, yes, but I see nothing wrong with that if it means dumping less stuff into the fish's environment.

I use Flourish Comprehensive twice weekly, and I pretty much have to or my swords begin to yellow. I set up my 70g two weeks ago with Flourite substrate, the first time I have used an enriched substrate; it will be interesting to see if the swords (this tank is my flooded Amazon forest, full of Echinodorus species) do better and also if I can go down to once weekly. Anyway, they recommend what amounts to 2.5 ml or 1/2 teaspoon Flourish for each 30 gallons; I use a plastic 1/2 tsp measuring spoon. In my 33g I use a full spoonful per dose. For my 10g I use almost a full spoonful. For your smaller tanks, I would use a 1/4 teaspoon and not worry about it. Probably once a week will suffice; you have to observe the plants' response and if yellowing leaves appear go to twice weekly.

Definitely use it weekly; it is not going to last a month, unless perhaps overdosed, but that could cause other problems. And a day after the water change, as conditioners that detoxify heavy metals will negate the micro-nutrients that are heavy metals (iron, zinc, nickel, manganese, copper) if used consecutively, according to Seachem.

Byron.
 
#33 · (Edited)
You purchased a T5HO and you have a 15 gallon? Perhaps I missed something on the tank size and light reading your thread, if so, I apologize
If this is so, you still have a lot of light. The T5HO bulbs are much higher output than some other types. You can't really use the watts/gallon calculation for T5 bulbs (for T5HO you'll need to multiply by about 1.8 X wattage for the"translated" watts/gallon equivalency). It depends also, on the depth of the tank and/or the distance above the tank the light is suspended.
I do use Excel, and am happy with it, but it does add complexity to managing the balance to which Byron refers. It also adds cost and some plants don't seem to care for Excel at all. On a related note, the active chemical in Excel is actually pretty nasty to human health (lungs, specifically), but the Excel concentration is only about 1.5%
 
#37 ·
I am finding that excel + Flourish comprehensive is useful for getting plants to grow rapidly in a small span of time. When i use the combination on my tanks, my plants get established faster, and i get less of a "plant melting" period. However, in an established tank, I need to add additional iron and potassium if I use excel and flurish comp.
 
#38 ·
Update:

The cyano kept coming back, though much more slowly, despite the awesome advice. I had given up on it and for other reasons changed my substrate. That was a good 6+ months ago and not a shred of cyano since.

A bit more research suggests the issue may have been too much iron. My old substrate was 'black beauty' which I understand is often created from ironworks slag. My new substrate is EcoComplete. According to some sources, cyano thrives in the presence of iron.

I wanted to share this update in case others have a similar situation: check for iron sources in the tank. :)

P.S. My plants look fabulous now!! :D
 
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